New Engines

[Keven]

Any suggestions on who to purchase from / use for new or OH engines on a 337A normally aspirated bird? I'm still using the originals so I've got the crank issue to deal with which I believe limits my options.

Any idea on prices and down time.

I just turned over 1700 hours on both (as well as TTAF). My compression and all still looks pretty good, but I need to start planning for the inevitable. I put 150 hours on it since last August, so I don't know how much additional time I'm looking at with what I've got.

Suggestions, comments, advice, and experiences are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Keven
________
Maryjane (http://maryjanes.info/)

[Kim Geyer]

Keven
If your looking for factory reman's, most every around here uses Air Power Inc. the $300.00 over cost guys
web site is www.factoryengines.com or 1-800-247-7693
we've bought 4 engines from them in the past year.
Kim

[kevin]

Keven,

I had the same choice to make two years ago, and I decided to get factory remans for the following reasons:

1.) Better resale value.
2.) Better warranty.
3.) Less down time. (Place order to delivered engines: two weeks. Engines arrive BEFORE you remove the old ones, so your only down time is actual installation period, 1 week for me for two engines.)
4.) Known cost, no chargebacks for crank, other stuff if engine has not catastrophically failed before you take it off. (A reason, BTW, to overhaul a little sooner rather than a little later. I overhauled my front engine at 1600 hours, but was planning to take it to 1800, then remove it even if it was still fine. But rear failed due to catastrophic turbocharger failure, so I decided to do both at the same time. Only had to cry all night once, rather than twice.)

My experience was good, with an exception.

I got two remans, both ran great in winter. In early summer, it became clear that when the rear got hot on the ground, the oil pressure dropped out of the green, to below 20 lbs. I had difficulty getting Continental's Northwest tech rep (who is in Alaska) to pay attention to my problem, and eventually had to write a registered letter to the Continental division manager asking for assistance. I copied the tech rep, and once I did that, I got good warranty support. They replaced the engine (found that nothing was really wrong with it except that many parts were at the wrong end of tolorances, and together, when warm, then engine opened up too much to keep the pressure up). They paid for freight both ways and all the labor from my not inexpensive shop for the replacement. I was, and continue to be, satisfied. New (2nd) rear engine runs just great, has slightly higher oil pressure than front.

I believe many overhaul shops do a good job, but for the reasons listed above, Continental remans were my choice, and I would do it the same way again.

Oh, and I used Airpower, and their service, ESPECIALLY the warranty support, was truly excellent, no complaints at all. It has been rumored that Airpower does not do a good job with warranty claims, I found the exact opposite to be true.

Kevin

[WebMaster]

:) We had to replace the front when we bought ours, and we used Airpower as well. No complaints. We chose the factory remans for all the above reasons. No VAR crank issues, minimum downtime, you get a complete warrantied engine.

[Keven]

I know that the cost will vary from shop to shop and from locale to locale. But I'm interested in what have you folks experienced concerning the cost to swap out the engines? Time and/or dollars.

Thanks again,

Keven
________
Motorcycle tires (http://www.motorcycle-tech.com/tires/motorcycle-tires)

[kevin]

I have only vague memories to help you, but here goes:

The raw TSIO360-CB engine was about 18K from Airpower. Removal and installation, overhaul of all accessories except props (which were previously overhauled) took the cost to 25K per engine. Remember, this includes the turbo, turbo controller, wastegate, alternators, etc etc. If it was hung on the engine, we overhauled it. Your normally aspirated mileage would be less.

The labor allowance from Continental for the R&R of the replacement engine was $2700. My old shop's rate was, if I remember right, $60 an hour, which everyone tells me is shockingly high, but which I cheerfully paid because they did it right the first time in most cases. Anyway, at that shop rate, the $2700 covered it, probably a bit more. (The mechanics bill mysteriously came out to very close to $2700, what a coincidence.)

Another way to compute it might be 40 hours at whatever your own shop's rate is, I think that should cover it.

Lastly, and interestingly, another option I considered was Firewall Forward, which overhauls the engine and all accessories and does the R&R at their facility. I think they came out to be 25K per engine as well. But they would have charged me for crank, etc etc.

All in all, others here can probably provide you more useful information, but my 1 cents worth. (Please provide credit card number for billing. .01 for advice, plus $45 handling fee. Thank you for your patronage!)

Kevin

[Kim Geyer]

Keven
We just did a double engine change on our T337H
Engines were @ $22,700 ea. I think hoses were @ $700.00 ea. engine, Lord mounts were @ $450.00 ea. engine. Labor @40 hrs. ea. If you do factory engines, they will have magnetos,starter,alternator, fuel injection, and even a new dip stick.
Let me know if I can help you find anything.
Kim

[kevin]

Re: Kim's message

I forgot, the alternator does come on the engine. But for a turbo, all the turbo accessories (turbo, wastegate, controller, overpressure value (or whatever it's called)) do not come with the engine. It seems like there were some other accessories that did not come with the engine, but I am probably just misremembering.

But then, you don't have a turbo, so why am I bothering to belabor this...?

Kevin

[GMAs]

kevin... you might want to go to Cont engines' web site and send a inquiree... seems to me that we replaced two engines with brand new one...yep new ones for less than what the shops are charging... and .... for only about 1200 more than a factory reman... they had several that they thru out on the market under their ... excess parts and materails... you might want to check and see if they have any more... these came complete.. new mags wires, injectors, alternator and starter drive... that we spec'ed... as they went back into a G series... we got rid of the starter drives that had the right angle gears and went for the direct connect...

You plane has to have the gear pump on one engine or both... so you have to have the right angle drive on the accessory assembly... but, they didn't charge extra for any of it... and left it up to your choice...

But, these were brand new...new engines... and they have the best repalcement that one can get...

They too shipped them out to the shop and we changed them out over the weekend... started on Friday night and the plane was back in the air on Sunday afternoon...

Motor mounts are 500 bucks... hoses are another 300 and new baffels were another 300... all in all it went real nice... Props and Gov's were done after the engines... as the plane was flown over to the shop for them to be overhauled... and checked... each prop was 2000 and the gov's were 350 each... but, when he got done he has almost a new plane... with new engines... it took 3 days for them to do the props and govs... but, he was up and flying again the next weekend... putting his hours on... to break them in... (we require 10 hrs local time below 5000 ft... before they go for a 3 hr run)...

So you might want to check out Cont engine direct... and have your mechanic do the change... it might save you some money... that way... as it is real nice to have one engine going and one coming... to make sure things are in the right places.. within hours instead of weeks.. and they forget where the hoses route went.. etc...

In our case we actually removed the rear engine first... then the front.. replaced the front and then replaced the rear.. that way we didn't have to tie it down... just put a support jack under the nose point... it went real smoothly... that way ... hope this helps.. GMAs

[kevin]

Gmas makes a good point, I think the deal was new engines for $2K more than remans. I would have taken this deal in a heartbeat, but it was not available at that time for turbocharged engines, only for normally aspirated.

Kevin