EchoFlight

[Pat Rolfes]

Bob-

You mentioned in another post that you are using EchoFlight. Any chance you can fill me in on your "real world experiences" with this? I have been awaiting the introduction of Garmin's GDL 49 which will use EchoFlight's subscription service (guilty as charged of owning a Garmin panel mount and LOVING moving maps).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Bob Cook]

Pat

I have nothing against moving maps... I have two of them. I opted for the Echoflight in lieu of the 430 or 530 as I thought there were more features and I did not want to spend 30K ++ replacing my panel and throwing out all the king radios.

Works like a charm. Used it last week to dodge CB's in the SE out of FLorida. Does what it say it can do. I have the NEW flight cheetah with all the charts, approach overlays, and the GPWS mapping incl. the towers and obstruction databases.

I have used it for about 2 1/2 years. I use the email a lot and I really like the visual metars! It is better than trying to contact flight watch.

If there is any down side it is the size of the Nexrad blocks of information. They go by 10 mi blocks. Green means nothing. This represents level 1-2 or up to 40 DBZ. The next is yellow. I have flown thru lots of yellow and ends up being heavy rain. You still need a stormscope and I have pestered Echoflight to put on data from www.lighteningstorm.com. This is one of their next projects. They are increasing the resolution of the nexrad and going for 8 levels rather than 3. I would use it for medium and long range planning and avoidance. I stay out of red and I rely on the stormscope. It would be nice to have lightening strike positional information that is more accurate than the stormsope for close haul work. It works 100 miles offshore and into Canada.

Second thing
If the data is 15-30 min old you must predict which way the wx is moving. If you are out for awhile it "plays back" the last few hours of data so you can get an idea where it is NOW. IE I would go to the west of a cell generally rather than east since wx moves W to E generally speaking.

There were some sat comm delays at times, but found this was interference and once I put in double shielded 400 cable and a low pass RF filter things improved.

My display is bright, really bright. In fact it is too bright at night time. Other than that there is room for software improvements. The software is rock solid and I have never had to reboot the system. Just some operational stuff such as flipping between Nav and the approach plates or doing Email OVER the nav page. Routing is a little clumbsy but doesn't matter as I use the 90B for enroute navagation.

With the Garmin I believe the information is limited to nexrad, metars, winds, etc. same as echoflight. I haven't heard what other features are available.

You can use it with a regular laptop but the displays are too dim for daylight viewing. The new Cheetah is smaller and I have it mounted on the yoke with the communicator up on the RS firewall.

Are they shipping the Garmin yet ? I haven't seen a feature sheet yet. I think it is far better than RADAR and you can't beat the information. Afternoon convection changes so quickly you need something to see "down the line" rather than 30-50 miles in front of you.

Just my personal opinion. I think it is an 8 out of 10 for what it does vrs cost. I sent Don and email in advance of my arrival to let him know I was going to be a few minutes late. Where else can yo do that?

fyi

bob

[Jim Rainer]

Bob, you didn't mention annual costs including the extra subscriptions. If you don't mind, please let us know.

Jim Rainer

[Bob Cook]

I am paying 25$ per month for subscription. This is less than the 90B. Includes charts and all updates. I have not been charged airtime and I have used it a lot on occasions. During bad wx I use autoupdate every 10m on the nexrad.

I have autopositon reporting so if aircraft is stolen I can track it anywhere around the world as long as the avionics switch is on. Works even if the flight cheetah is not turned on. The software is in the communicator that sends fixes every five minutes to the echoflight computer where you can log on and see the tracking.


I went looking for the garmin specs and info. Couldn't find it? do you have the information. I dropped into the factory at Olathe KS last year when they were doing some of the developement on their version of the communicator.

BTW the uplink freq is about 137 mhz at 5 watts and the down link freq is about 149 mhz. Need standard 2 meter whip antenna to make it work. With this frequency there is less rain attenuation and interference from transponders.

fyi

bob

[Pat Rolfes]

Fabulous info. Thanks Bob.

My avionics guy at OJC (right down the road from Garmin) tells me Garmin is still shooting for a late August rollout. Had no specific details.

I'm actually suprised at how little discussion there is regarding all this datalink weather stuff.

The following sight has a pretty interesting comparison:

http://www.satellinktech.com/product/comparison-table-aviationwx.htm

[Bob Cook]

Pat

My brother lives close to OJC! Going there next weekend.

The info on the sight seems close. The up and downlink time is not that important as I would not rely on any nexrad information for tactical purposes. Storms are too dynamic. The Echoflight can adopt any information as can Garmin, now or later. Money and resources determine the scope of the product.

No doubt as Broadcast wx information (data) is developed serial interfaces (RS-422) will carry the information from a receiver/decoder to the display.

The fact the 530 has 8 serial inputs gives it a lot of flexibility and expansion capability. The other side of the coin is a PC based system where mapping overlays are used in a combination of raster and/or vector dispays. These have a lot of merit as you can integrate approach plates and other larger database information (hard disc systems).

I really do not expect any of these earlier systems to have a shelf life of more than 5-7 years as the technology progresses quickly. No doubt the 530 can and will last longer and echoflight; who knows. I assume they will be bought out before they fold since going public these days is not a wise move.

Certification such as TSO will keep the players apart and no doubt a few (3 maybe) will emerge with a competitive product. Time will tell.

In the meantime there are some good alternatives, available now, that can improve the safety of flight without breaking the bank. You have to give credit to pioneers like Echoflight and Anywhere (movers and shakers) that light fires under the big boys..... Impressive technology, but more to the fact, a great job of integrating current resources to make them more useful...as a whole.

I have had two good years out of the product so far and decided not to wait for Garmin as I figured it would not be high on their priority list as a product. No doubt, they must be more careful due to potential liability. I can't wait for three more opening screens of disclaimers and warnings. ( Turning this unit on may be detrimental to your health).

Sorry to get carried away.


Bob
:D

[Pat Rolfes]

Bob-
Thought you'd be interested...
I was in OJC ystrday and they were installing their 4th GDL 49.
Was really hoping to "see it in action" but could not. Technician told me he is hearing from customers that download time (uplink?? not sure of term here) is 4 to 5 minutes and acquired data approx. 5 minutes old. Is this similar to Cheetah??

[Bob Cook]

Rolf

I am not sure what Garmin is picking up from echoflight. The cheetah does a lot more because of the mapping. It has terrain avoidance, tower obstruction information, all the noaa plates, then there is mapping along with sat imaging. I am not sure if you can communicate via email. I would expect not. The update each month is about 500 megabytes of data from a CDROM which includes the noaa approach plates.

I assume with Garmin you get METAR, nexrad overlay along with wind etc. The echoflight has improved its resolution and bandwidth over the past month. There is a lot more local detail to nexrad. Seems the resolution is a function of distance you ask and distance you are from the wx.
I typically get 5-10 min old wx on downloads. It is quite current information. I think the system has improved since june. Sure rely on it!!!

The cheetah display is quite a bit larger and brighter than the Garmin 530. That I like. Now the downside..... It is too bright at night. It is easy to get at being yoke mounted. They now have the approaches in the system and gives you vertical guidance (vfr of couse).

Bob

[jcthomas]

HI!

I have been reading the info on the wx info. I have been talking to my avionics man and he is sold on the Echolflight system. He also told me that the unit has been adapted and adopted by Garmin to integrate into the 430 and 530.

I am interested in the product because I fly with a Garmin 295. What I found interesting is the fact that the unit incorporates a GPS system with all of the Approach Charts, email, airport diagrams and whatever else one needs.

If you go to their site, you can download a very interesting demo which gives you the ability to play with unit.

The reporting is every six minutes for the latest info. The cost is from 5.95 for three hits up to 49.95 for unlimited hits. I think this is correct. After you reach your limit of contacts, it is $1 for everyone thereafter.

I am going to check out the info youall have been kind to offer. I am novice with some of this, but thought I might add to the discussion what little I know.

I have been thinking about UPS and Garmin systems and learned that the present UPS system will never have the capability to do vertical nav.

John

[Bob Cook]

John

I have a 295 and I think it is fantastic based on cost.

The Echoflight is the best "bang for the buck". It is not approved for IFR use, however, it was designed as a suplementary system not primary. There is nothing on the market at the moment regardless of price that does what the cheetah does. The demo doesn't do it justice now that the newer software is out. It is very intuitive and unlike windows, I never have had it "crash". The newer cheetah is far superior to the older one. It is much faster and has large HD capacity. The powersupply is remote and uses a db9 cable and connector for the total interface.

glad you jumped in....welcome


bob