Seat Belts

[hharney]

HAS ANYONE TRIED ANY OTHER SEAT BELTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE OUT THERE IN 337 LAND? I AM CONSIDERING A 3 OR 4 POINT SYSTEM FOR THE LEFT AND RIGHT SEAT UP FRONT. ANY THOUGHTS? I HAVE A 1968 C MODEL.

I HAVE SOME INFO ON B.A.S. INC. OUT IN OREGON COUNTRY. HAS ANYONE HAD ANY EXPERIENCE WITH THIS COMPANY?

[SkyKing]

Curious... what's wrong with the seat belts that came with the plane, or are you doing loops like Steve Weaver does with Bodacious?

SkyKing

[hharney]

ONE CAN ONLY WISH TO DO SUCH SHOW STOPPING STUNTS. MY 337 MAY HANDLE THE ABUSE BUT THE PILOT MAY NOT.

THE BELTS THAT COME WITH THE '68 MODEL ARE ONLY LAP AND DOES NOT INCLUDE SHOULDER STRAP. YOU GUYS WITH THE MODERN UPDATED EQUIPMENT MAY NOT NEED THESE. I HAVE HEARD THAT 'IF' A PERSON HAD TO DITCH THE CHANCES OF WALKING AWAY ARE MUCH GREATER WITH SHOULDER RESTAINTS. NOT THAT ANY OF US ARE PLANNING TO DIG ANY DITCHES.

[Bob Cook]

I have the retractable and tried to install the BAS belts.

IT requires drilling a hole in the spar. I quit at that point. They are not approved was the other reason.

Perhaps installing the over the shoulder optional harness may be the answer.

fyi

bob

[GMAs]

I think you will find that the later ones, 3 point, are just as good as the 4 point seatbelt harness... as the major reason they don't use them in the private planes is 1. they are expensive, 2. they are unconfortable, 3. they jam on impact... yep they are not as good and even thought he military and aerobatic guy and gals use them... if they ever crash... they have a heck of a time getting out of them... not to mention that you have a 3 part back and a broken neck... but, they did stop you and hold you into the seat... however the seat broke free and the weight of all the other stuff behind it... contrib to you looking like you got squeezed out of a cookie frosting decrator... as you were stopping all the goods by your seatbelts holding all...

The three point was decided to be the best and the safest...as well as the cheepest (best for the buck) because it keeps you from going forward... on impact while not jamming you in... as you can release the bottom lap belt and still get out of it without much consern for the sholder belt restrictions...

so they are cheeper, work as well and are more comfortable than the 4 points... and they can be added to your later year by attaching it to the side rail bulkhead... see later models parts manuals for details... Cessna also has a kit for upgrading your early model to the 3 point also...

Hope this helps.. G.M.>GMAs

[hharney]

THANK YOU GMA'S FOR YOUR REPLY. I REALLY CAN SEE THAT IT IS A DOUBLE EDGE SWORD. YOU HAVE EXPLAINED A SAFE AND PRACTICLE OPTION.

[Kevin McDole]

OK, so the 4 point system may not be the ultimate seat belt. But does anyone know where you can get a 3 point inertial reel seat belt for the Skymaster? The "fixed" shoulder straps are just too limiting when you're trying to reach for things.

[Bob Cook]

Kevin(M)

I have the inertial reels as an option from Cessna. Try the boneyards or there is a seat belt mfgr in Calif (forget the name) that has the inertial reel and belts. Here is where B.A.S. just might be able to help. There are fittings in the spar (in mine anyways) that should support the reels. They do work well.

bob

[hharney]

I am dragging this old thread out from the archives.....................has anyone had any new seat belt purchases? I am still looking and it sounds like the 3 point system would be sufficent. Thoughts?

[JeffAxel]

Herb,
my Skymaster ( a '77 T337G) had BAS seat belts in it when I got it. They are wonderful. No problems moving around, and I am sure they would be much better in a crash than the factory 3 point seat belts my 210 had. There is only one buckle, just like the stock seat belts, so no additional hassles getting them off. They are approved for Skymasters under
STC SA2067NM. I would recommend them.

[billsheila]

Hi Herb;
I went digging into the paperwork I have for N2131X and it appears that the 3 point belts installed in my bird were sold by a company called "Aircraft Belts, Inc." out of Kemah, Texas. The phone number I have is 713-538-1284 but this is off of a invoice from 1995 so who knows if still valid. I didn't try googling them but that might be a way to check on them.

Hope that helps.
Bill

[skymstr02]

Aircraft Belts only repairs exisiting units, they don't have STC's or installation data.

[hharney]

BAS seat belts They are wonderful. No problems moving around, There is only one buckle, just like the stock seat belts, so no additional hassles getting them off. They are approved for Skymasters under
STC SA2067NM. I would recommend them.

Thanks for the reply Jeff, I really questioned if they would be comfortable or not. In the pictures I have seen they look very restrictive, like the upper belts are rubbing up against the neck. My concern with BAS over other 4 point systems is the single attachment point for the upper belts. This looks really uncomfortable.

[JeffAxel]

Well Herb, that has not been my experience. I thought the same as you, and wouldn't have done the installation either based on appearence. As I said, my plane came with them already installed, so I had to try them out and I have found them to be quite comfortable, no hanging on your neck at all. I feel they are a good upgrade, but as they say, YMMV! You might find a plane with them installed and try them out, who knows, you might like them! If you find yourself out this way, look me up, you can try mine.

[hharney]

Thanks Jeff, I will be in Twin Falls August 11th week. Will that be close enough? Meet you there! I would love to try them.

[JeffAxel]

you are a hopeful sort!! But if you can get to Portland, dinner is on me!

[Tony]

I am dragging this old thread out from the archives.....................has anyone had any new seat belt purchases? I am still looking and it sounds like the 3 point system would be sufficent. Thoughts?

I was just pricing shoulder harnesses out and Cessna sells a complete kit, including both lap belt and shoulder harness for both pilot and co-pilot, with all new hardware for around 300 dollars (Canadian).

IIRC, Cessna told me this kit fits all serial numbers.

[tropical]

I was just pricing shoulder harnesses out and Cessna sells a complete kit, including both lap belt and shoulder harness for both pilot and co-pilot, with all new hardware for around 300 dollars.

IIRC, Cessna told me this kit fits all serial numbers.n ypu

Can you provide more information, such as part number or kit number?

[Tony]

I will get the kit number and post it tomorrow.

[Paul462]

Herb,

Mary & I have flown 1968 T337C's with BAS inertial reel shoulder restraints for the last 6 years, and they're comfortable for me. Mary complained of them rubbing against her neck, so she made little sheep skin sheathes which attach via velcro, and now finds 'em comfortable. If you're around 6 feet tall, they should be OK.

Apparently BAS got the STC for T337C's during recent years, so they can now be installed on that basis. They're inertial reel - a definate advantage over non-extending shoulder harnesses, and have two straps, which is probably better than one diagonal strap at preventing one's upper body from going through the instrument panel on impact. Is the Cessna kit inertial reel?

Paul & Mary

[Tony]

Service kit number is sk337-55a2. Double check with Cessna for applicability. This is pilot and copilot seat. No inertia reel as far as I know.

[Pete Somers]

The inertia reel seat belts are about $600 each from Cessna.

Pete

[Kim Geyer]

We have 4 sets of seat belt/shoulder strap for skymasters. ( A set is pilot and copilot)Will let them go some what cheap.
Kim

[tropical]

We have 4 sets of seat belt/shoulder strap for skymasters. ( A set is pilot and copilot)Will let them go some what cheap.
Kim

Sent you an email on this.

[Learjetter]

Resurrecting an old thread...Just FYI: NTSB recommends requiring GA aircraft to have shoulder harnesses/airbags--two years after you folks discussed their benefit here, on this board!

Links for more info:

http://www.basinc-aeromod.com

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/harness_kits/



NTSB News Release below (Jan 11, 2011):
************************************************** *********
NTSB PRESS RELEASE
************************************************** *********

National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: January 11, 2011
SB-11-03

************************************************** *********

NTSB STUDY SHOWS THAT AIRBAGS CAN PROVIDE OCCUPANT
PROTECTION IN GENERAL AVIATION ACCIDENTS

************************************************** *********

Today the National Transportation Safety Board adopted a
study that concluded that general aviation (GA) airplanes
equipped with airbags provide additional protection to
occupants in accidents involving survivable forward impacts.

Airbags are designed to mitigate head and upper body
injuries and are installed in the lap belt or shoulder
harness portions of the restraint system. They were first
approved for use in the pilot and co-pilot seats in GA
aircraft in 2003. Currently, there are nearly 18,000 airbag-
equipped seats in over 7,000 of the 224,000 GA aircraft in
the United States.

"Although airbags have been mandated in automobiles for over
a decade, the aviation industry has no such requirement for
small aircraft," said NTSB Chairman Deborah A.P. Hersman.
"The good news is that over 30 manufacturers have stepped up
to the plate and offer airbags as standard or optional
equipment."

The study, which examined 88 accidents involving airbag-
equipped airplanes that occurred between 2006 and 2009,
found no instances where the airbag caused harm in properly
restrained occupants. In addition, the study found 10
survivable accidents in which the crash forces were severe
enough to cause injury and/or to deploy the airbag.

Within the group of 10 accidents, 12 occupants experienced
airbag deployments, and the study found that the airbag
likely mitigated injuries for two of the occupants.

The study also noted that there were no negative
consequences as a result of airbag deployments. For
instance, there were no cases in which the airbags were
expected to deploy but did not. Nor were there any cases
that involved airbags deploying under unexpected
circumstances, hindering egress, fueling post-crash fires or
interfering with rescue attempts. Yet investigators did
uncover some safety issues with restraint systems.

One such issue involved the incorrect usage or adjustment of
seat belts. In certain aircraft types, the seat belts in the
left and right seats can become reversed, which could result
in the wrong airbag being activated if only one of the seats
is occupied.

There were also concerns with optimal airbag protection for
occupants whose body mass indexes (BMI) classified them as
either overweight or obese (BMIs of 25 or higher). The NTSB
questions whether the airbag-equipped restraints were
designed and tested with the high-BMI population in mind.

An additional finding of this study was the strong
affirmation that correctly installed shoulder harness/lap
belt combinations provide significantly greater protection
in GA accidents than that offered by a lap belt alone. Based
on an analysis of over 37,000 GA accidents, the Board
concluded that the risk of fatal or serious injury was 50
percent higher when an occupant was only restrained by a lap
belt as compared to the combination lap belt and shoulder
harness.

"The simplest and cheapest improvement to the safety of
general aviation aircraft occupants is the mandatory
installation of shoulder harnesses," said Hersman.

The five-Member Board voted to adopt six safety
recommendations, all directed to the Federal Aviation
Administration:

1. Require manufacturers to modify restraint systems
vulnerable to being used incorrectly in newly built GA
airplanes and to modify restraints in existing airplanes.

2. Revise the guidance and certification standards for
restraint systems to reduce the likelihood of misuse.

3. Modify the guidance to GA airbag manufacturers as to how
they should demonstrate that an airbag design provides
adequate protection for a greater range of body sizes,
including very small and very large individuals.

4. Require the retrofitting of shoulder harnesses on all
general aviation airplanes that are not currently equipped
with such restraints.

5. Evaluate the feasibility of requiring airbag-equipped
aircraft to capture and record crash dynamics data to
determine whether the system performed as designed.

6. Develop a system to track safety equipment, such as
restraint systems, airbags, and aircraft parachutes,
designed to improve crash outcomes.

The complete safety study will be available at www.ntsb.gov
in several weeks.

###

Fly safe!