Vortex Generators
 

Does anyone have any experience with Microaero vortex generators?

Do they diminish cruise performance?

Do they collect ice?

Are they knocked off the wing when line personnel are refueling the aircraft?

I've just purchased N3CU, a '73 American-intercooled P337.

The Microaero Vortex Generators are AWESOME!

I have flown eight different aircraft with them and generally find the following:
1. Increased climb performance (Rotate @ 29 kias, climb out at 45 kias in 1957 C182.
2. Docile stall character (stalls straight ahead, noses down, dances around without ever really stalling -- hanging on the prop)
3. Cruise performance within a knot of unmodified cruise.
4. No adverse effects in icing conditions (P210 certified in known ice encountering light mixed.... not gonna find out what moderate ice is until I'm in a BIG Boeing)
5. Line guys haven't broken any off, yet. There are spares included in the kit in case they do.
6. Vanes stay on, even when wet or being washed.
7. Put vanes on AFTER the new paint job cures.
8. Scrawny folks with little muscle strength can now land nose-heavy P210s and C182.
9. Stops the 'fall out of the sky' character of certain hershy-bar winged aircraft. Not yet sure what it will do to the C336 (and I can't wait to find out!).

and the biggest problem:

Do NOT put you hand on the vanes to pull yourself up to check fuel or get the fuel cap off. OUCH!!!!!

The red mark does go away after a week. . .

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

THEY MAKE THEM FOR P337, HOWEVER I E-MAILED THEM AND ASKED FOR SPECIFIC QUANITATIVE PREFORMANCES NUMBERS AND THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO SUPPLY THE NUMBERS. THEY MAY BE WORTH IT; HOWEVER SPECIFICE NUMBER IMPROVEMENTS IS ONLY THE REAL WAY TO QUANITFY IT. BETTER FEELING DOES NOT QUITE GET IT (TOO BAD AS I WOULD BE INTERESTED)

GJ
 

Congrats on your purchase. Our aircraft must be a few s/n's apart as my tail number is N3CP, a '73 P337. Hope you enjoy flying the aircraft as much as I do. Performance for me is great, but then I travel by myself 99% of the time and with just one person it is a screamer. I am looking into the vortex generators myself because I have numerous friends with the VG's on different aircraft and they say it makes a huge difference in handling (especially at slower speeds). SO, if I go ahead and do it I will let you know what I find

Bob

Ok, guys. SOMEBODY bit the bullet and install these things! I've been thinking about it, too, as I frequently fly in and out of a 2,000' sand strip and would really like a slower approach speed. If no one does it before my next annual (March), I'm going to tell my mechanic to go ahead and I'll be the guinea pig.

I'm one of the guinea pigs, it seems. I'm having MicroAero vortex generators installed this week. VGs seem like a good way to improve lower- speed performance, and they're a lot less expensive than traditional STOL mods.

Guys - I installed VG's two weeks and about 8 hours of airtime ago on my '67 model. Stall speeds decreased 4 to 7 mph depending on configuration. It hangs on forever before a full break, drops left wing and nose in the break, and recovers quickly (200 ft or less) with reduced back pressure and uphill rudder. I can see no appreciable impact on cruise speeds. Rate of climb has definitely improved at least 10 to 20 % !! Slow speed handling has improved dramatically with considerably less control effort required.

During the test flight I worked to quantify the above numbers to see if I really made the right decision to install these VG's and my answer was yes. More important in the "smiles" department is the change in overall handling of the airplane which I have owned since 1978. It now feels and flys very differently...much quicker and smoother in response. I told a friend that it was like installing power steering and air shocks on an old truck! My only negative is that I am having to learn not to overcontrol the aircraft in IMC now that less control input is needed!

I haven't seen ice yet and the limited time in service gives no good history to respond to your fueling or other type damage concerns. So far none have come off since installed. There is a spares kit which should stay in the airplane...the STC requires that no more than 5 be missing.

I did the installation with the help and sign off of my mechanic. Start to finish required 16 hours including set up and clean up in my hangar and could be done in a couple of hours less next time around....just a lot of tedious work to get the airplane prepped and them glued on properly. Otherwise a well designed and complete package from Micro-Aero which was simple to install.

Hope this helps in your decision process....try it you'll like it.

Happy Holidays

The Deal
 

The VGs are truly the deal!

Peyton was kind enough to take me up yesterday afternoon and let me fly his 2PM. All the raves are true. I can't really comment on added climb, because I had never really spent that much time in Peyton's bird to know what was normal for it.

However . . . the handling is much smoother, softer, and requires less strength than the full truck-like handling needed on my plane. Mind you that not all of the heavy feel is gone, just the amount of effort needed to wrestle it around. And let's talk about moving the plane around . . . . It's like a video game doing 60 degree banks -- effortless. 45 degrees feels like 30 degrees in my plane. 60 degrees feels like about 45 degrees in mine. The wings just don't want to stall.

And speaking of stalls, I bumped it into stalls a few times -- kinda. Although the stall horn may be yelling at you, it sure doesn't feel anywhere near a stall. And the plane is actually fighting you to nose back over by itself. It takes a concentrated and continued effort to keep it in a stall.

So, yes, these little sharp pieces of aluminum seem to be all that they are claimed to be. They are now on my wish list for N5409S. I just wonder how they will interact with my Horton STOL kit, or if they are even allowed to be installed on a plane that has a Horton on it.

FWIW,

Keven
________
FIX PS3

I have the Horton also
 

I have the same question, can I get them on approved with the Horton.
let me know if you find anything else.

Rick

OK - I now have about 20 hours on the vortex generator installation so here is the new poop:

1. I have now seen ICE....light to moderate rime and building like crazy ( don't ask)....but handling was better than before.

2. I have seen CROSS WINDS.... 18 gusting to 26 at 35 degrees. Just can't explain how much easier this was to handle.

3. I have had my wife try her "pinch hitter" skills and she says it now "flys almost like the 150 instead of a truck" and she has about 10 solo hours in the 150.

4. I have seen "light to moderate turbulance" and recovery is smooth and silky.

5. Still no problem with generators coming off, so I now assume there will be no problem with them shedding.

In short, the more I fly them the more I like them!!

Free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it . I won't give advise, free or otherwise....but I continue to be EXTREMELY pleased with the vortex generator installation.

Peyton

Can you install these with deice boots?

Kevin - contact Micro AeroDynamics and ask this question. They are at 1-800-677-2370 or www.microaero.com

I wonder if you could use them with a Horton Kit? They look like a great idea if they weren't so EXPENSIVE!!!


Richard

Thanks I'll call them
Kevin B

Kevin:

Do you have a phone number for Horton? I am trying to find a replacement decal for my wingtip, and they have not responded to my email request.

Thanks

Mark

Is there a gross weight increase with the VG's?

Kevin:

I don't think the VG's officially change the gross weight limitation. There is no mention of it on the website http://microaero.com/CS_PDF/Cessna/337_CS.html .

They list changes to stall speeds, but not GW. I would think they would sell it up if they could.

Mark

They are compatible with the Horton... so... Ordered a kit. $100 off for Skymaster Owners And Pilots web site members.


Richard

$1850 total.

To VG or Not... to VG...
 

What is the approximate amount of time to install the VG's?
Guy, the old 72 driver....

A guy on our field installed his in about a day and a half. They come with a paper template that you lay out on the wing surface, with each VG location marked. The VG's just glue on. You can even order the VG's prepainted (I think it is an extra $100 charge), so there is no painting required. It is very simple and straight forward.

Mark

Just curious,
 

Has any one had a shop install them and if so, how much time is needed? guy, the old 72 driver....

I installed my own with inspections and sign off by my regular mechanic. The install took me approx 16 hours incuding set up and clean up plus I worked a little slower than normal to be sure of getting everything correct.

I think that a regular shop that was familiar with the procedure could do it in 12 to 14 hrs max.

The Micro-Aero kit is very complete with all materials needed and clear instructions. There is just a lot of prep and a lot of vanes to install.

Got them installed! Took two people 6 hours. Can't say if it's improved performance (haven't flown it yet), but sure looks sexy!!!

Richard

I AM SOLD!!! Every landing is smooth!!! I tried to screw it up today on purpose. Flared a little too early. Held the nose off to see when I could get it to stall. No such luck, landing is incredibly more easy than without.

Another thing I noticed is that it wants to fly alot earlier on takeoff. About 51-52 mph it wants to come off the runway.

Dreamy results.

Richard

Installed today, not flown yet. 6 hours start to finish including prep and cleanup; installed by myself and the mechanic.

I have to say that it was an EXCEPTIONALLY well designed kit...every single thing required to do the job in one small box. Templates, STC docs, detailed instructions, tape, thread, adhesive, string, measuring tape, etc...even a pencil.

Installed as per the book, no surprises and no guess work. Ikea could take a few pointers from Micro Aero. :)

Can't wait to fly it.

Feedback
 

Great feedback John - thanks. Look forward to hearing your post flight reports!

Hi Jeff,

Just realized I didn't follow up on this.

My experience mirrors what everyone else in this thread has had to say...that is, in a word, excellent. The slow flight and stall are VERY benign. The airplane is a joy to land...such accurate feel in pitch through the flare. The vast majority of my landings now are "grease it on" with the stall horn blaring and I usually make the first turn off.

I was bouncing around today in pretty bad chop (both convective and mechanical) down low shooting approaches and the right seater commented on what a stable instrument platform it is.

As far as cruise speed I don't think it's hurting me at all. Yesterday I departed CYSB at a takeoff weight of about 4000lbs. Field elevation of 1141' and Density Altitude of 2400'...warm, humid and gusty. I climbed to directly to 9550' MSL in 11 minutes flat. So that's 8400' of climb for an average of 765fpm...throttles to the stops and 2600rpm in the climb, leaning to maintain about 1275 degrees EGT and 375 degrees CHT. Cowl flaps closed (I spend A LOT of time on baffle seals) and holding about 115KIAS in the climb.

Once I leveled off I left the throttles forward for 20"MAP and props pulled back to 2400rpm. Still warm up there with a DA over 10000' and she settled in at 154KTAS on a total burn of 18 GPH.

On the other leg of that flight I was 162KTAS/6500'/20GPH.

I know that my rigging is a bit sloppy so there's a few knots left to go. :)

Cheers,

John

Great Flight Report
 

Brilliant! Thanks John, that is great feedback, appreciate it. I think you have convinced me.

Regards,
Jeff

took the plunge...
 

Ordered Microaero VGs today for my NA '77 G model. Will try to remember to post an installation report, and a post-installation flight report in the coming weeks.

Side note: Called an aerospace coatings company who insisted I can bring the paint codes from the log entry and sample inspection plates and they will make me matched aircraft-quality paint in rattle-cans (while you wait) so I can do the paint and clearcoat myself. The microaero site includes excellent painting instructions in the FAQs.


Update: Finished installation and ops check flight. Bottom line? Easy to do, makes a difference.

Update #2: Link to Cessnaowner.org article on VGs.

Good luck with the install.
I did myself last year on a saturday.
Not a bad install if you're handy.
They make a noticeable difference.
Would do it again for sure.

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Thanks for the pics JHogan, they were very helpful.

I truly wish this forum would update its software from 1999 so we could actually post pictures in the threads, and with no 1 meg limit!

Herb, AOL is calling and it wants its forum back! :p

Its great that we have a FREE forum!

Anyone have any concerns about loosing inboard of the booms and it striking the prop? Other than that, this looks great! Thank you to everyone who has posted their observations!

I don't think the VGs have enough mass to do any damage to a swinging prop. One could nick the paint, buts that's about it I think.