Access question

Wyoaviator · #1 02-09-11, 05:34 AM

Hello all 'master folks. I am seeking insight from other owners about what I believe is not a unique situation. I am a commercial SEL/SES and instrument qualified. If the answers at the end of this post work out I would be willing to get my mel/centerline rating.

First, some background.
My father has been affected by a neuromuscular disease. He is confined to a power scooter and no longer drives. Neither can he walk. However his mind is fine.

The family recently returned from a trip aboard the airlines. The indignity he suffered at the hands of the friendly TSA agent was something that I would not wish on anyone. It really takes two people to get him through security. One to help him remove all his gear and another to receive it after it has passed through the xray machine. It took 45 minutes from the time we got to the front of the check line until we had cleared security.

This incident has prompted me to look into alternative forms of transportation.

I had considered a 206 as the large rear doors would allow loading of the power scooter and other equipment, however getting he cannot lift himself up high enough to get into the airplane. That is how I wound up here at the skymaster forum. I liked the look of the front door, I believe that with the wing strut, landing gear, and entrance door configuration on the skymaster, he could get himself into the airplane.

I liked the look of the passenger access door to the skymaster, but as I got to analyzing the problem, I began to wonder if the baggage door is large enough to fit a power scooter through. Then, as I considered the logistics of loading the family, I figured that if he could get into the copilots seat, I would have to crawl over him to get to the pilot's seat.

So, with that, here are my questions:
1. Does anyone have experience with a similar situation? How did you handle it?

2. Does anyone have experience with loading a power scooter into the back of a skymaster? Could someone out there take a few measurements of the door size and let me know how big it is? I have searched online and cannot find the dimensions.

3. Assuming the scooter will fit into the back, does the copilots seat slide forward far enough that a handicapped individual could crawl into the back seat?

I apologize for such a long, drawn out post. Thanks for reading, and thanks for any insight or assistance anyone can deliver.

Wyoaviator.

J.T.Grant · #2 02-09-11, 03:03 PM

Dear Sir,
I appreciate the difficulty that you are facing in regards to travel options for your Father.
Rather than asking personal questions as to your Fathers size, weight, and strength, perhaps the best option is to find a member of the group near to your home base and arrange to give it all a Dry Run. After all, your Father will be the one with the final say in the matter.
I for one would be happy to let you try out the process and go for a short flight. I am based at KMDQ, which is near Huntsville Alabama.
Good luck,
regards,
James

hharney · #3 02-09-11, 10:22 PM

Wyoaviator

If your father cannot access into the co pilot side of a 206 I don't think you are going to find much difference in the 337. As I first read your post I was thinking that you were leaning toward the airstair door of the later model 337 but then you said that you needed the baggage door and that brought me back to the original swing out Skymaster door.

Here are my thoughts; I don't think the baggage door will accommodate the scooter. I don't have the dimensions right now but I could measure it for you tomorrow. A standard large suitcase will not fit through the door and normally I have to load them over the rear seats. The copilot seat will slide up to allow access to the rear seats or the pilot seat but I don't practice entering that way to often. I do however let the rear passengers out before with the copilot seat forward and it works fine.

I really think the 206 is a better idea with the large door in the rear and access on both sides for pilot and copilot. Just my thoughts.

skymstr02 · #4 02-10-11, 05:47 AM

Herb, The 206 with the large cargo door (U206) does not have a co-pilot door. The 206 with a co-pilot door (P206) does not have a large cargo door. It has to do with the strength of the fuselage structure.

Just a bit of Cessna trivia.

Dave

hharney · #5 02-10-11, 12:07 PM

Well, that is good to know. Thanks Dave.

Wyoaviator · #6 02-10-11, 06:06 PM

<<The 206 with the large cargo door (U206) does not have a co-pilot door. The 206 with a co-pilot door (P206) does not have a large cargo door. It has to do with the strength of the fuselage structure.>>

I wasn't aware of this situation with the 206 either. That would make getting Dad into the airplane a bit of a challenge if there is no copilot door.

Thanks Dave.

Wyoaviator · #7 02-10-11, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hharney

Wyoaviator

If your father cannot access into the co pilot side of a 206 I don't think you are going to find much difference in the 337. As I first read your post I was thinking that you were leaning toward the airstair door of the later model 337 but then you said that you needed the baggage door and that brought me back to the original swing out Skymaster door.

Here are my thoughts; I don't think the baggage door will accommodate the scooter. I don't have the dimensions right now but I could measure it for you tomorrow. A standard large suitcase will not fit through the door and normally I have to load them over the rear seats. The copilot seat will slide up to allow access to the rear seats or the pilot seat but I don't practice entering that way to often. I do however let the rear passengers out before with the copilot seat forward and it works fine.

I really think the 206 is a better idea with the large door in the rear and access on both sides for pilot and copilot. Just my thoughts.

Thank you Mr. Harney
If a large suitcase won't fit into the baggage area, I doubt the scoooter will make it, even with a set of ramps. I was originally thinking as you said about the airstair door. I really don't believe he could lift himself into the front seat of a 206, even if it did have doors on both sides.

The beauty of the 337 is that the gear and the strut do not appear to get in the way of ingress.

If you really wouldn't mind measuring the door, I could at least say thank you for helping me out.

I had figured, as I believe you assumed, that he could crawl into the passenger compartment, then work himself into the back seat with the front seat all the way forward. I'm guessing this is not a whole lot different than the process used in getting into the back seat of a 182.

Thanks to all who commented and provided advice. I haven't given up yet.

And, if nothing works out, we will continue using the airlines and dealing with the friendly TSA people. The beauty of a 737 as opposed to a 337 is that both the passenger door and the cargo door are large enough to accomodate everything we need to take with us. It is just a much more difficult process.

hharney · #8 02-10-11, 10:20 PM

I was referring to the main cabin door. Accessing the rear seats through the main door with the copilot seat slid forward. I don't think he could crawl into the baggage door.

Wyoaviator · #9 02-10-11, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hharney

I was referring to the main cabin door. Accessing the rear seats through the main door with the copilot seat slid forward. I don't think he could crawl into the baggage door.

I guess I didn't make it clear.

I was thinking the same thing. Have him crawl into the back seat via the main door, then run the scooter into the baggage compartment with a set of ramps.

One more thought.... (I'm really trying to make this work.)
If he were to sit in the copilot's seat, then run it forward, to load mom and the Mrs., then run it all the way back, do you think a person could climb over him into the pilot's seat? Or, some variant of that process?

Actually I believe that this whole discussion may be pointless if the scooter wont fit through the baggage door.

Thanks for your kind thoughts and your concern.
Wyoaviator.

iswap · #10 04-25-11, 10:54 AM

Wyoaviator,
If you are still checking this thread for ideas, I'll post our experiences with our 0-2A (337B) and a wheelchair-bound pilot. I can suggest how it might work with your situation.

As others have said above, a different airframe might be better. But the Skymaster would be a great airplane for Wyoming, if you could make it work.

n86121 · #11 05-14-11, 10:06 AM

I've seen smaller scooters that fold down and would therefore probably fit through the cargo door. Might consider looking at those options too.

D

n86121 · #12 07-28-13, 12:25 PM

I have an elderly friend who has wanted to buy into my 337. I've had it for 20 years and I will probably have it for another 20.

BUT

I walked him over to a Seneca on Pootmac Airfield. The back access doors to a club seating Seneca seem hard to beat. The entry is low to the ground, an easy step, and your Dad can get in and out easy.

You are probably also aware of small powered scooters that dismantle. They COULD fit through a Skymaster cargo door, but getting into the front seat might still be difficult, as it requires either one giant leap, or two steps.

D

WebMaster · #13 07-28-13, 08:34 PM

I got a note from Mike Hand,

The seneca and the cherokee six have both been on my list.

BUT (sorry for the delay in following the thread)

My dad crashed his power scooter on election day. He passed away ten days later.

Sorry about not keeping people informed. As you can understand, I have had a lot on my plate.
M