Rolls Royce TSIO-360

[Dr.Dan]

Hi guys, I have a major paperwork problem with my newly acquired T337G. The front engine is a Rolls Royce TSIO-360-D. I was told that this was licensed by Continental and made by RR.
Now, according to Continental, they do not hold the type certificate for the Rolls Royce TSIO-360 and thus cannot determine equivalency.
So even though this engine has been installed and working for decades, Transport Canada says it needs to be replaced.

Do you guys have any information about the certification of these engines when they were installed? Based on a search of this forum it seems there are at least a few other P337's out there with the RR engines.

Thanks,
DD

[mshac]

My understanding the RR motors were all installed in the French Reims built Skymasters, which were built under license from Cessna. How one ended up in Canada is a mystery!

If you have to replace it, I'll be happy to take it off your hands.

Does the RR version have its own service manual, or does it use the standard Continental manuals? Someone with half a brain at CAA should be able to figure this out.

[california Sky]

I have the RR engines in my P model 1973...

I’ll look through my logs to see how they did it and report back.

It’s been awhile since I looked at how they did it for 58C.

Hopefully I have something that will help you.

Steven

[Dr.Dan]

Originally Posted by california Sky

I have the RR engines in my P model 1973...

I’ll look through my logs to see how they did it and report back.

It’s been awhile since I looked at how they did it for 58C.

Hopefully I have something that will help you.

Steven

That would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
Dan

[JAG]

Dan - FWIW, I think you need to have it in writing from them why they will not accept the engine. Check what your IPC says for P/N, then compare with the P/N on the engine. I know with my 337A it calls for an IO-360C, and that is the P/N on the motor. I would also call Cessna next - they may have a Service Letter or SB that allows for this engine (RR) on the aircraft. Don't remove based on some Transport Canada Weeny (I can call them that cause both my brothers are Transport Canada Weenies and they call themselves that!).

Don't worry about Continental - the TC holder of the airframe (Textron/Cessna) is the one you need to coordinate with.

Jeff

[rrolland]

Frank:

The certification authority for the RR engines was the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) from the UK.

Richard

[mshac]

Register it in Canada - Problem solved.

[rrolland]

This not a new issue unfortunately. In the 70's a number of RR TSIO 360 engines were installed on T337G's (P337's) by various entities (engine shops, MRO's etc.). In a number of cases, the FAA became aware and forced the removal of the RR engines as they were never certified in the US in the first place.

I owned N78C a while back and the log books contained several entries including paperwork from the FAA forcing the removal of the RR engines shortly after installation. The FAA had been notified by a shop doing maintenance on the airplane...

It would be interesting to find out how some owners overcame that hurdle.

[mshac]

Register it in France? Find a French aviation atty.

[Dr.Dan]

Status update: no real progress yet.

Continental has been worse than helpful. They basically sabotaged me by denying any knowledge of RR tsio-360’s even though there’s multiple service bulletins from the era.

I’m waiting to receive the records from the FAA.

I may pursue a limited stc.

I may need to buy a whole new engine and I won’t even get core credit for this.

DD

[wslade2]

Would overhaul (not by continental) “zero” this out? If so maybe you can find reasonable overhaul shop.

[Learjetter]

Originally Posted by Dr.Dan

Status update: no real progress yet.

Continental has been worse than helpful. They basically sabotaged me by denying any knowledge of RR tsio-360’s even though there’s multiple service bulletins from the era.

I’m waiting to receive the records from the FAA.

I may pursue a limited stc.

I may need to buy a whole new engine and I won’t even get core credit for this.

DD

Dr Dan,
If you find you need some friendly FAA airworthiness peeps to talk to, PM me, I might be able to help.

-LJ

[rrolland]

DD:

Attached is the Aircraft Condition Notice issued by the DEN FSDO back in 1989 for N78C. The logs show that in the end, the owner at the time elected to replace the engines with Continental TSIO 360's.

The records that I have also show that the owner at the time engaged in legal action against the provider/dealer for the engines. From what I can see, the record is inconclusive and I am not sure that any compensation was paid.

PM me if you are interested and I will be more than happy to mail you all of this. It may be of assistance, or it may not.

Richard

[Ed Coffman]

Originally Posted by rrolland

This not a new issue unfortunately. In the 70's a number of RR TSIO 360 engines were installed on T337G's (P337's) by various entities (engine shops, MRO's etc.). In a number of cases, the FAA became aware and forced the removal of the RR engines as they were never certified in the US in the first place.

I owned N78C a while back and the log books contained several entries including paperwork from the FAA forcing the removal of the RR engines shortly after installation. The FAA had been notified by a shop doing maintenance on the airplane...

It would be interesting to find out how some owners overcame that hurdle.

Do you have any evidence the FAA forced an owner to remove one of those engines. I would love to see it. Otherwise I find your hearsay specious. See attachment from FAA registry.

[Ed Coffman]

It might not be airworthy due to the VAR crankshaft AD that hit all the old TCM 360 models.