Skymaster Arctic Circle Ditching.

[sunnysky]

Hmm. Must say I didn't understand the bit about decreasing oil temperature in their report. Usually when you have decreasing OIL PRESSURE (as they state) you have a high oil temp ?
Maybe some clarifacation on the oil temp situation would help.
Your point Ernie on on where the oil temp is sensed. Surely its the same in all 337s ? Apart from the turbo ones maybe ?

[Ernie Martin]

I assumed the same, that all 337s measure oil temp at the same location, BUT a different measuring point seems the only way that your experience and theirs has the same cause. Also, is it possible that electronic engine monitors put the probe at a different point than the stock gauges?

Ernie

[Skymaster337B]

I'm starting to like the oil cooler theory. My question is, what type of oil was used? Straight weight or multi-viscosity synthetic oil? Personally, I only use synthetic oil and it makes a big difference how fast the oil pressure rises on a very cold day.

I also find it rather odd that the operator and maintenance manuals don’t establish a cold weather limitation…they both generally discuss colder weather starting procedures. There is an option for an oil dilution system, but that is for starting during cold weather and not while operating at altitude. The operator's manual says to watch engine temps during a cold weather descent…i.e, don’t chop the throttle. But the big paradox is I remember seeing optional cold weather plates the restrict airflow thru the front cowl and also out the rear cowl…but can’t find any info about it in either the operator or maintenance manual. It makes me wonder if Cessna really didn’t even want to mention cold weather flying for some reason.

[sunnysky]

Yes. I;ve heard about "winterisation" kits, but can't find out much about them.
Sunnysky

[Diamond Service]

The aircraft just had an annual done. The DAR can not issue an export C of A unless the annual is no more than 30 days old. The magnetos,prop governor and propeller were overhauled on both engines. The engines was serviced with Aeroshell 15W50.

During the cruise at 11000 feet the oil temperature was pretty much in the middle of the green arc. I was not concerned with the OAT being -30C since I have flown several pressurized twin Cessnas and Malibu 310 in colder conditions.

I did two test flights in Ohio. Some oil was noticed on the prop blades and I discussed it with the owner of the maintenance shop but we both considered it to be normal for a newly overhauled prop. We agreed that the seals in the props need some hours of operation and they will stop leaking. I did not notice any major oil leaks on the blades later on. I monitored the oil consumption on the engines very closely and they were not using much.

It feels to me like there was no oil left in the engines. The oil temperature decreased because there was no oil flowing past the sensor,but just enough to hold the pressure up a little while longer. There is a lot of ways to lose engine oil and I can only speculate. Why this happened to both engines within such a short period of time is also hard to answer.

I have more than 12000 hrs in the air. I have flown a lot of piston powered aircraft. I got my aircraft mechanic license in 1984. I am the owner of an aircraft maintenance shop that serves light aircraft. I search hard for some answers on what happened to my engines that night over the Hudson Strait. I am thankfull for all your comments but I also accept that I will probably never know for sure what happened. I want to buy another Skymaster but my family has suffered enough and for them the aircraft is a symbol of misfortune. I learned a lot from this accident. The equipment we had and the skills we had saved our life. My advise to pilots that fly over remote areas is to have the right equipment and use it. I also learned that what you have inside your suit is what you have left after a ditching. I know that the people that searched for me that night and the people that took care of me after I was saved is probably not in this forum but I want to thank them anyway. I am touched and lost for words on what they have done for me.

Troels.

[hharney]

In the POH of my 1968 Super Skymaster (lots of emphasis on the SUPER) Section VII on Optional Systems contains "Cold Weather Equipment" and says:

WINTERIZATION KIT.
"For continuous operation in temperatures consistently below 20 degrees F, the Cessna winterization kit, available from your Cessna Dealer, should be installed to improve engine operation. The kit consists of two baffles for the front engine, one baffle for the rear engine, and crankcase breather insulation for both engines. Once installed, the crankcase breather insulation is approved for permanent use in both cold and hot weather."

Attached is a photo of the front baffles but I have never seen the rear engine baffle. The rear engine baffle is attached to the lower outside ring below the prop on the exit end of the airflow. This statement is pretty standard in most all the Cessna piston Pilot handbooks except for the Turbo models. Maybe the Turbo models generate enough heat and do not require this?

[Skymaster337B]

hharney, thanks for the info. It seems like there should be a limitation of -20C posted in the operator's manual unless the winterization kit is installed. But now that I know the nomenclature it is figure 83A in the maintenance manual for 65-69' models. There is also a placard figure 1 for "remove winterization kit for temps above -20C." It seems to me like the placare should say "install winterization kit for operations below -20C". What's everyone else's thoughts? Perhaps a new AD is required!


================================================== ================
"In the POH of my 1968 Super Skymaster (lots of emphasis on the SUPER) Section VII on Optional Systems contains "Cold Weather Equipment" and says:

WINTERIZATION KIT.
"For continuous operation in temperatures consistently below 20 degrees F, the Cessna winterization kit, available from your Cessna Dealer, should be installed to improve engine operation. The kit consists of two baffles for the front engine, one baffle for the rear engine, and crankcase breather insulation for both engines. Once installed, the crankcase breather insulation is approved for permanent use in both cold and hot weather."

Attached is a photo of the front baffles but I have never seen the rear engine baffle. This statement is pretty standard in most all the Cessna piston Pilot handbooks except for the Turbo models. Maybe the Turbo models generate enough heat and do not require this?"

[Skymaster337B]

hharney, thanks for the info. It seems like there should be a limitation of -20C posted in the operator's manual unless the winterization kit is installed. But now that I know the nomenclature it is figure 83A in the maintenance manual for 65-69' models. There is also a placard figure 1 to "remove winterization kit for temps above -20C." It seems to me like the placard should say "install winterization kit for operations below -20C". What are everyone else’s thoughts? Perhaps a new AD is required!

One final thought, Cessna called it a winterization kit...but I'm flying in the winter without it. So perhaps it should be call the extreme cold weather kit...-20C is extreme cold weather. I really think Cessna went out of their way to ignore the whole -20C operation.


================================================== ================
"In the POH of my 1968 Super Skymaster (lots of emphasis on the SUPER) Section VII on Optional Systems contains "Cold Weather Equipment" and says:

WINTERIZATION KIT.
"For continuous operation in temperatures consistently below 20 degrees F, the Cessna winterization kit, available from your Cessna Dealer, should be installed to improve engine operation. The kit consists of two baffles for the front engine, one baffle for the rear engine, and crankcase breather insulation for both engines. Once installed, the crankcase breather insulation is approved for permanent use in both cold and hot weather."

Attached is a photo of the front baffles but I have never seen the rear engine baffle. This statement is pretty standard in most all the Cessna piston Pilot handbooks except for the Turbo models. Maybe the Turbo models generate enough heat and do not require this?"

[tropical]

Originally Posted by Diamond Service

My advise to pilots that fly over remote areas is to have the right equipment and use it. I also learned that what you have inside your suit is what you have left after a ditching. I know that the people that searched for me that night and the people that took care of me after I was saved is probably not in this forum but I want to thank them anyway. I am touched and lost for words on what they have done for me.

Troels.

I'm just curious about one thing, why did you choose that time of year to make the trip? It seems to me making the trip in the middle of summer would far outweigh making it in the winter.

[Diamond Service]

Originally Posted by tropical

I'm just curious about one thing, why did you choose that time of year to make the trip? It seems to me making the trip in the middle of summer would far outweigh making it in the winter.

I purchased the aircraft in June. I planned the crossing for the end of august.Unfortunately the work on the aircraft took much longer than expected. I know that it is serious business to perform this flight during the winter and that you can easily be on the ground waiting for a weather improvement. If you are planning a flight like this make sure that you got thé right gear.I hope this answers your question.

Troels.