labor fees too much? Annual inspection question

[Mark Campbell]

I am, and have been an A&P for over 25 years, also an IA for over 10, I think this is right in line.
All the best!

Mark

[skymstr02]

I have to agree with Mark, the hours seem to be in line, considering the scope of the work accomplished. The number 3 cylinder is in the center, so all of the intercylinder baffling on that side must be removed to gain access to the cylinder. It does take some time to remove the exhaust clamps if the bolts are rusted, in order to prevent damage to the clamps themselves.

[rmorris]

First, thanks again for those that commented thus far.

I agree with the whole trust thing. But here's the deal, I trust the owner a ton since he has worked on my plane out of a trailer for the past year and half. He bought this new new hangar (with some buiness partners) and also got a few mechanics in the deal. When I took the plane to him (after calling to schedule the annual) I thought HE was doing the work as usual. Turns out that he now wants to sit behind a desk as Direcctor of Maint and has these other guys doing the work. I don't doubt for a minute that they do quality work. I do however doubt that it would take me 17 hrs to remove & re-install the exhaust by myself. As a little background, I did many things in the Navy and one of them was the rating of Engineman - which among other things tears down and reapirs huge diesel engines on ships. So I think I can look at a mechanical job and at least have an informed opinion. Again - 17 hrs was the charge for the exchaust itself. 3 hrs to remove and replace 10 adel clamps all easily accessible on the front engine.

Also, when removing the exhaust, I told them we would put on all new hardwaqre and clamps, and the exhaust itself was deliberately being removed to send off for overhaul by Dawley - so not a lot of 'saving' had to be done during its removal. Now that the exhaust was removed, the cylinders should've been pretty darn accessible.

Happy to continue to hear opinions, even if they don't agree with mine. Just trying to see where I'm wrong with my line of thinking.
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Ford C4 Transmission History

[tropical]

Originally Posted by rmorris

I agree with the whole trust thing. But here's the deal, I trust the owner a ton since he has worked on my plane out of a trailer for the past year and half. He bought this new new hangar (with some buiness partners) and also got a few mechanics in the deal. When I took the plane to him (after calling to schedule the annual) I thought HE was doing the work as usual. Turns out that he now wants to sit behind a desk as Direcctor of Maint and has these other guys doing the work.

This appears that you really don't trust the owner of the shop. If this is the case take your plane elsewhere for the next repair.

Originally Posted by rmorris

I do however doubt that it would take me 17 hrs to remove & re-install the exhaust by myself. As a little background, I did many things in the Navy and one of them was the rating of Engineman - which among other things tears down and reapirs huge diesel engines on ships. So I think I can look at a mechanical job and at least have an informed opinion. Again - 17 hrs was the charge for the exchaust itself. 3 hrs to remove and replace 10 adel clamps all easily accessible on the front engine.

Find a mechanic that will let you do the work and sign it off for you. It will be then that you will see what's really involved here. There is a huge difference between working on a diesel ship engine and an airplane.

Originally Posted by rmorris

Also, when removing the exhaust, I told them we would put on all new hardwaqre and clamps, and the exhaust itself was deliberately being removed to send off for overhaul by Dawley - so not a lot of 'saving' had to be done during its removal. Now that the exhaust was removed, the cylinders should've been pretty darn accessible.

There is alot to do to remove the exhaust, especially on the turbo model. Had the mechanic just beat up everything to get the exhaust off the engine how would you feel?

Bottom line, take your plane elsewhere or do the maintenance yourself.

[JeffAxel]

Originally Posted by rmorris

First, thanks again for those that commented thus far.

I agree with the whole trust thing. But here's the deal, I trust the owner a ton since he has worked on my plane out of a trailer for the past year and half. He bought this new new hangar (with some buiness partners) and also got a few mechanics in the deal. When I took the plane to him (after calling to schedule the annual) I thought HE was doing the work as usual. Turns out that he now wants to sit behind a desk as Direcctor of Maint and has these other guys doing the work. I don't doubt for a minute that they do quality work. I do however doubt that it would take me 17 hrs to remove & re-install the exhaust by myself. As a little background, I did many things in the Navy and one of them was the rating of Engineman - which among other things tears down and reapirs huge diesel engines on ships. So I think I can look at a mechanical job and at least have an informed opinion. Again - 17 hrs was the charge for the exchaust itself. 3 hrs to remove and replace 10 adel clamps all easily accessible on the front engine.

Also, when removing the exhaust, I told them we would put on all new hardwaqre and clamps, and the exhaust itself was deliberately being removed to send off for overhaul by Dawley - so not a lot of 'saving' had to be done during its removal. Now that the exhaust was removed, the cylinders should've been pretty darn accessible.

Happy to continue to hear opinions, even if they don't agree with mine. Just trying to see where I'm wrong with my line of thinking.

FWIW, I had the same thing done to my plane 2 years ago and was charged for 16hr to R&R the front exhaust.

[Skymaster337B]

Here's a suggestion that might save you half the billable hours...remove everything yourself. There's nothing in the FARs that prevent an aircraft owner from removing parts off his own aircraft. But you will need an A&P to return the aircraft to service...that doesn't mean the A&P has to put everything back-together-again either but is at the discretion of the A&P signing off the work. "Owner assisted" are the only type of annuals I'll do...because I don't want to get my hands dirty, haha. But really it all comes down to time and the fact that I make good money doing other things. It doesn't take an IA to remove nuts and bolts.