Latest revision to maintenance manual

[Gord Tessier]

If it was a design flaw then yes. If it was because of a worn out part then no. I don't mind paying for the part and the labour to install said part but the cost of the inspections could exceed the value of the ac. It's as if they are trying to ground the entire fleet in one fell swoop.

[tropical]

Originally Posted by Gord Tessier

If it was a design flaw then yes. If it was because of a worn out part then no. I don't mind paying for the part and the labour to install said part but the cost of the inspections could exceed the value of the ac. It's as if they are trying to ground the entire fleet in one fell swoop.

Design flaw?? Do you even understand what corrosion is? We're talking aluminum products being built up to 50 years ago, stored and cared for in who knows what ways.

Sorry, I just don't buy your reasoning. While I don't agree with Cessna and the SID, I do understand what's driving it. And it's not the FAA, it's Cessna attorneys playing CYA. With a country full of rogue lawyers looking for big payouts I don't blame them.

[Skymaster337B]

Yes gross negligence. Because they should have built and sold the airplane with a service life limit...as new airplanes are built and sold today. Sorry they couldn't envision the airplane flying for 50 years, but what did they reasonably expect?

Corrosion! They had the knowledge and technology to zinc chromate all internal surfaces...but out of gross negligence and profit motive the airframes insides are bare metal...a crime against aviation in my opinion.

[tropical]

Originally Posted by Skymaster337B

Yes gross negligence. Because they should have built and sold the airplane with a service life limit...as new airplanes are built and sold today. Sorry they couldn't envision the airplane flying for 50 years, but what did they reasonably expect?

Corrosion! They had the knowledge and technology to zinc chromate all internal surfaces...but out of gross negligence and profit motive the airframes insides are bare metal...a crime against aviation in my opinion.

So you knew of this "gross negligence" and you purchased, and flew the airplane anyway??

Who's negligent?

[n86121]

Have you ever noticed that on all of your ground-fault outlets it says to "test them every 30 days?"

Like much of what goes on in the USA these days, many of these measures become an exercise to prepare a defense "in case anything happens."

"What? Do you mean that when your husband flew into the mountain out of fuel, he had failed to remove the wings every six months to inspect for cobwebs?"

From friends in high places, the only rule that is enforceable is one that has gone through a rulemaking process, which engages oversight and accountability. At least in theory.

Bureaucrats and lawyers often forget these limits. When someone tries to 'enforce' beyond their statutory authorities, they are literally abusing power by trying to exercise authorities not given to them in the first place.

As owner of Potomac Airfield I have become, alas, somewhat expert in these matters.

Unless its an AD it is just good advice, and maybe a defense for Cessna, but that's all.
D

[Skymaster337B]

Originally Posted by tropical

So you knew of this "gross negligence" and you purchased, and flew the airplane anyway??

Who's negligent?

I didn't know of Cessna's negligence until many years, and lots of corrective maintenance, after purchase.

[tropical]

Originally Posted by Skymaster337B

I didn't know of Cessna's negligence until many years, and lots of corrective maintenance, after purchase.

Sorry, not gonna buy that. So you are saying before purchasing the airplane you never, nor did your mechanic, open an inspection cover? You or your mechanic never removed a cowling?


You're grasping at straws.

[Ed Coffman]

You buy junk, you get to fly junk. Or fix it.

[Skymaster337B]

Originally Posted by tropical

Sorry, not gonna buy that. So you are saying before purchasing the airplane you never, nor did your mechanic, open an inspection cover? You or your mechanic never removed a cowling?


You're grasping at straws.

My point is that I just expected better.

[Hank Biesbroek]

Following the conversation - Interesting!

Just curious, if the revision is dated Oct 2010, why are we just talking about it now?

Was it just released by Cessna, or has it been out since October 2010?

Hank

[Gord Tessier]

I don't get that either. The revision was dated July, but the effective date was last October. I would never have even known about it until next June 15th which is when my annual is and that's when I check to make sure I have the latest revision. I am in Canada and have gotten conflicting information as to whether they are mandatory so I have asked Ottawa directly (Transport Canada Headquarters). A fellow pilot did ask earlier in the year and was told he did NOT have to do them so the answer should be the same. I hope

[sns3guppy]

What do you mean zinc chromate doesn't prevent corrosion?

Exactly what I said.

Chromate is a surface treatment which acts in two ways; it protects the surface to some degree, and in some applications can serve to aid in retaining anticorrosive agents. What you're likely used to seeing as zinc chromate is a surface paint, although some people mistakenly refer to it as a chromate conversion (something entirely different), which is another process that converts the metal surface through a process of chemical change and oxidation.

Chromate conversion is better known as alodine, which is a much better method of treating aluminum surfaces than simply painting with zinc chromate paint (often used as a primer).

If you've had much experience around older airplanes that had zinc chromate (the real stuff; not the green spray paint that's sold today as "zinc chromate), you'd have seen it peeling and ineffective. It's no longer a barrier, it's not providing surface conversion, and it doesn't account for numerous forms of corosion (including those that form under surface coatings, such as filiform corrosion).

Some aircraft that have used surface sealants and treatments experienced increased rates of corrosion . If you've ever worked on Sabreliners, for example, you'd know exactly what I mean. Further, chromates do nothing for electrolytic corrosion in many cases, especially between faying surfaces, in bolt and rivet holes, and between layers, lap joints, etc. Surface paints and chromates don't prevent intergranular corrosion, fretting corrosion and other associated metal weakening and loss; in fact, where mechanical corrosion occurs, it removes the chromate.

Most aluminum comes with a surface of pure aluminum, sometimes referred to as Alclad. The alclad oxidizes, and provides a corrosion barrier to the underlying material.

spraying down the inside parts of your airplane sounds good, but doesn't stop corrosion from happening.

[Ernie Martin]

At the time the SIDs were being developed, it allowed one year from effective day for compliance. If that hasn't changed, make sure the other Canadian pilot didn't have to do them simply because it was not due yet.

Ernie

[Gord Tessier]

Thanks Ernie, Cessna put a date of may 1st, 2012 to comply by. All the guys I talk to in Canada aren't going to do them. I am waiting for a response from our CAIR's people in Ottawa for guidance.