P337

[JeffAxel]

The P337 only goes up to FL200. It burns 24gph LOP at 65% power there and will do 185KTAS at that power setting. It isn't a bad aircraft by any means, actually very easy to fly and very stable in IFR conditions, but it will not have the range of a Malibu. The inline thrust is a big plus, and why I bought one as well. No 337 is FIKI, and they lose quite a bit of speed with any ice buildup beyond a 1/4" or so. Just putting this out there so you don't buy one and find out it won't do what you want it to do, but if 1000nm is okay, and you find a good example, it is the least expensive pressurized twin you can own. I still miss mine.

[flyag1]

Originally Posted by JeffAxel

The P337 only goes up to FL200. It burns 24gph LOP at 65% power there and will do 185KTAS at that power setting. It isn't a bad aircraft by any means, actually very easy to fly and very stable in IFR conditions, but it will not have the range of a Malibu. The inline thrust is a big plus, and why I bought one as well. No 337 is FIKI, and they lose quite a bit of speed with any ice buildup beyond a 1/4" or so. Just putting this out there so you don't buy one and find out it won't do what you want it to do, but if 1000nm is okay, and you find a good example, it is the least expensive pressurized twin you can own. I still miss mine.

Thanks Jeff,
Do you know the climb rate @ 20K?

[JimC]

Don't forget your Mirage had 5.5 psi differential, and the 337 has 3.35. That means much more fatigue buildup per hour The Mirage runs an 8,000 ft cabin at FL250 and the 337 runs a 9,200 ft cabin at FL190. You'll also get less of a tailwind 6,000 ft lower.

Published max climb at FL200 for a T337G is 870 fpm at gross. You're going to have pretty hot engines trying to get that rate on anything warmer than an ISA day.

[JeffAxel]

What JimC said. The P337 needs to be at 120KIAS or more to stay cool enough in climb most of the year, 500fpm is realistic with acceptable temps, although there are some cooling mods that can help I am told, no personal experience although my plane had intercoolers. The P337 has a 10,000ft cabin at FL200, and its max ceiling is FL200 according to the limitations in the POH. It is not a stellar climber, and this can be a big problem in icing conditions.

[flyag1]

Originally Posted by JeffAxel

What JimC said. The P337 needs to be at 120KIAS or more to stay cool enough in climb most of the year, 500fpm is realistic with acceptable temps, although there are some cooling mods that can help I am told, no personal experience although my plane had intercoolers. The P337 has a 10,000ft cabin at FL200, and its max ceiling is FL200 according to the limitations in the POH. It is not a stellar climber, and this can be a big problem in icing conditions.

Jeff, the way you describe the performance of a P337 could be mistaken for a Malibu. Almost one in the same.

There is a marked difference tho, I'll give an example using Santa Fe with an elevation of 6350. Leaving there on an 80 degree day with full tanks and 2 peeps with 400#'s of my wives stuff. Full throttle and away, rotate @ 70+ and stagger into the air, fold the gear, dump flaps and get ready for the ride of your life because it's going to be a minute or more waiting to build the speed necessary to get her on the step. If the engine stuttered just once during this phase of flight your going to hit something really hard. Once you get above 140 or so the wing begins to fly, but that can take some time. And until you get the wing flying I don't thing you have a chance in hell of flaring if the engine fails. Its going to be a hard stop.

Now from my experience flying a N/A 337 once you rotate the wing is solid and if something was to go wrong you have a fighting chance.

Per book and the post below, a P337 @ FL 200 burns 24 GPH with 150 gal tanks. Simple math says that give you 6.25 hrs till tanks are dry. The Malibu will burn 20 GPH at the same Alt... and using the simple math that gives you 6 hours. The speed is nearly the same for both: only difference is the 337 has 2 power-plants to maintain and the high lift wing.

I wish the 337 had the 5.5 PSI cabin but hey I'll take the safety of having 2 engines and maybe sucking on O2 at times over following the single TSIO540 across the tall rocks.

Just need to find a good airplane. It's more difficult then I first thought, as of now the only P on the market that I've not ruled out is the Mid Content one in MO. I need to call on that one: N27JA

[JimC]

It sounds like you've got a decent handle on both planes.

I'm pretty sure you won't find a well-equipped P model that can carry full tanks, 2 adults, and 400 lbs of stuff under gross weight. It's definitely going to be a rare bird.

If you plan on flying out of high DA airports regularly, I'd pay very close attention to your weight. I literally flew a loaded* P337 out of Santa Fe on an 80 degree day two weeks ago (82 degrees, actually.) It does just fine with both engines turning. I'm convinced that losing an engine on departure in that scenario would lead to a crash if you're going north, east or west (rising terrain) and a very white-knuckled ride going south (terrain descends very gradually.) The book says you'd be climbing at roughly 100'/minute if you're doing nothing wrong *after* you're cleaned up and feathered. The chances of a successful outcome from a failure below 1000' AGL are low, and you know that you have roughly twice the chance of an engine failure. Once you're up at altitude the second engine switches sides and adds safety, not reduces it.

It'll do what you're asking except:
Provide extra safety on high DA departures at gross weight
Carry 2 adults, 400 lbs of wife stuff, and full tanks
Go 1400 nm - even rarely


*The P337 I flew had an empty weight of 3249. Add full fuel (150 * 6.0) and you're at 4149. That leaves 551 lbs for people & bags.

[hharney]

Originally Posted by flyag1

J as of now the only P on the market that I've not ruled out is the Mid Content one in MO. I need to call on that one: N27JA

Has anyone looked at N2QF

https://www.controller.com/listings/...77-cessna-p337

[flyag1]

Originally Posted by hharney

Has anyone looked at N2QF

https://www.controller.com/listings/...77-cessna-p337

I tried but could not work with the dealer: then I contacted the owner and he referred me back to the dealer.

You would not believe the text message I have on my phone from that dealer himself.... it's shocking to say the least. I also talked to a couple of locals that know the dealer and they said stay away... Now these are A&P's and IA's that work in the Area.

Sadly this airplane is less then a 2 hour drive from my front door... go figure.

[Multimotor]

Originally Posted by flyag1

I tried but could not work with the dealer: then I contacted the owner and he referred me back to the dealer.

You would not believe the text message I have on my phone from that dealer himself.... it's shocking to say the least. I also talked to a couple of locals that know the dealer and they said stay away... Now these are A&P's and IA's that work in the Area.

Sadly this airplane is less then a 2 hour drive from my front door... go figure.

Wow, how hard is it to say, "I represent Skymaster NXXX, the asking price is $XXX, when would you like to see it"?

It does seem to be well presented on line, with lots of pictures and the log books, and on the plus side, the asking price has gone down $7,000. Where did the broker go wrong?

[S019]

So, I had emailed the broker to ask about the plane. No response still after a week and a half. Clearly he has no interest in making any deals or properly representing the seller. That plane has pretty much been inactive and likely to take a bit of work which makes it even more important to answer inquiries to interest in my opinion. And looks like it is just going to sit longer. Can't say I'm surprised by this action though. It's sad to know that plane is likely to continue to rot away because of the lack of motivation of the broker.

Originally Posted by flyag1

I tried but could not work with the dealer: then I contacted the owner and he referred me back to the dealer.

You would not believe the text message I have on my phone from that dealer himself.... it's shocking to say the least. I also talked to a couple of locals that know the dealer and they said stay away... Now these are A&P's and IA's that work in the Area.

Sadly this airplane is less then a 2 hour drive from my front door... go figure.

[JeffAxel]

N27JA is not pressurized if the picture I saw of it is correct.

[flyag1]

Originally Posted by JeffAxel

N27JA is not pressurized if the picture I saw of it is correct.

Your absolutely correct Jeff, no Turbos either. Maybe that's why I never called on that one.

I'm sure there is a good one out there, just gotta find that needle in the hay.

[basloane]

Full disclosure, I am planning to sell my aircraft,... N187. We had it on the market last winter, but de-listed it because of this virus business ( plane is in Canada and border crossings are difficult ).
That having been said, may I suggest finding a solid plane that needs engines and paint, possibly interior. You can give it the paint job you want, then put remans in both ends. You will be able to have more confidence in the engines knowing where they were overhauled....
As for my plane, it carried my across the Atlantic Ocean in 2006 and gave me 10 wonderful years in the Middle East flying to golf courses and dive spots on the weekend in Dubai, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi and Oman... Even a couple of fly-ins in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
No de-ice, but I don't really feel I need it. With 5+ hours of endurance, detours are easy.