battery

[rmorris]

My battery is about 3 yrs old. it amazes me that mechanics affirm that 3-4 yrs is a long time for an aircraft battery.

I was going to buy a replacement at Sun N Fun, but the Gil rep of all people talked me out of it. Apparently they have some new technology for their batteries, and they were selling like hotcakes, but the replacement for the G242 (one mine would use) had not been approved yet with the new technology. He was expecting in a few months (which would be about now)...

So:
1) Is 2-4 yrs (or less) what others get out of their batteries. if more time, are you doing anything special to extend life? I still want it relaible when I walk out and go fly, and a battery minder is not practical, but I fly multiple times per month (unless my exhaust is off, see other post .
2) What brand/model do you buy, and why?
3) Anyone have any news on this new Gil technology, and whether it is worth waiting?

[hharney]

Concorde RG technology has been out for years. I'm on my third one. Every three years I replace my battery. This last time I bought the Battery Minder designed and made for the RG battery and I have left it on the battery whenever it is in the hangar. Remember, just because it starts the engine doesn't mean the battery is sufficient for IFR flight. How long will your battery last if the charge system goes awol and you are hard IFR at night? I don't really want to find out but if it happened I want the most out of my battery that I can possibly get.

Do it once, do it right. It's only a problem when you aren't repaired for it........

I you buy the Concorde RG you won't be sorry, it's a great battery. Once you do then take care of it with a Battery Minder

[rmorris]

battery minders alot harder to put in place when you are in a tie-down not near an outlet...yes, a solar powered rig can be set-up, but not an easy task, especially when there are high winds.

thanks for your feedback on the battery you use.

Anyone else want to chime in on the topic?

[edasmus]

I have always used the Gill G242. My experience has also proven that 3 years is the norm. When I replaced my last one 18 months ago, I also purchased a battery minder and use it whenever the airplane is sitting. My hope is the battery will last longer but I won't know the answer for another 18 months. It is frustrating to me the lack of longevity with these batteries, especially for what they cost, but it seems to simply be a "fact of life." Supposedly the battery minder will extend the life. I hope it does. Stay tuned.

Ed

[hharney]

I know the Concorde costs a little more but I think the program is worth it. It's a sealed battery and that eliminates the maintenance and any potential acid spill that will happen. I have seen a lot of battery box locations and they are normally a mess. No worries with the Concorde RG24-11.

The cold crank amps on the Gill is 106 and it's 160 on the Concorde. The rated capacity is 8 hours and 11 hours respectively. The Concorde is also half a pound lighter. I went back and checked my log book and I have averaged about 5 years on the Concorde without a battery minder. I still may change my replacement schedule based on the fact that I used to change the battery when it died and I am thinking that is not the best PM. As I said above in the other post, how long is the battery going to last when you are IMC at night and the system goes down? I will probably change it every four years minimum now that I have the battery minder to condition the battery. The battery minder de-sulfates the battery. Keeps the plates in top condition.

It's a no brainer in my mind, Concorde RG24-11

[rmorris]

pulled my battery out to charge it up, and low and behold I did get a Concorde put in...logbooks show Jan2014, so 1 1/2 yrs, on a Concorde RG24-15 Platinum Series battery. So as with most things aviation, it appears your mileage (and battery life) may vary.

I know my previous Gil batteries lasted much longer than 1 1/2 yrs.

Now, to be fair, I have made a lot of electrical changes, and how I use things. eg:
I replaced my entire avionics stack to now include two Avidyne IFD540s, they are big units and I went for the extra power 16w comms on them, etc...plus I keep my lights on and flashing at all times now...I replaced regular lights and went all LED, AeroLED to be precise...with wig wag...so the draw should be low, given they are LEDs...they supposedly have a lifespan of some huge number of hours of use, so I decided to just leave them on an wagging all the time, along with AeroLED beacon/strobe, nav/strobes, plus my older belly strobe (yes I am lit up like Christmas all the time). But it makes my bright yellow bumblebee pretty darn visible when others have to find 'traffic'.

Anyway, I digress....with all above going on, I need to hook up an ammeter and figure out my actual load....seems like if I leave that all on after landing, I barely have enough juice to fire up again. If I turn it all off right after landing, and idle for a few minutes, I have enough juice....that was making me think it was time for a new battery, but maybe it is just me.

In any case, I may give the new Gil technology a try if they have the approved new version that replaces the 242 avail at OSH.

Still love other pireps on batteries, and more importantly, why. These are the kind of thing that are great for a forum like this one...sharing your thoughts and opinions with others. We don't all have to agree, or use the same stuff, but it is nice to explore...

[chrisktx]

I can confirm that three years is a long run for an aircraft battery.

[bking]

Will a Concorde replacement fit the original 337G battery box with any modifications?

[hharney]

Without any modifications? Yes, check the Concorde site for applicability. No modifications required to the original box

[Learjetter]

Today, my 2 year old G242 battery died. Showed 24.3v unloaded, but volts dropped to 9.8v upon cranking—obviously no start. Worked great two weeks ago. Use a Schauer 24v ground power unit and battery charger routinely. Thought it would be a good battery minder...but maybe the charger/maintainer hastened it’s demise? According to logs, prior to 2018, the bird got a new battery in 1988, 1999, and 2009. So, old Gill batteries were apparently pretty good. Thinking of swapping to Concorde. A&P votes for Concorde also. Concorde site calls for the RG 24-12 as the appropriate battery for my ‘77 NA G model. Anyone using this battery? Where do you like to shop for one?

[mshac]

Are there any Lithium Ion batteries PMA'd for the 337? They are taking over in the Bonanza world. Half the size and weight, far more CCA. Would love to have a LI option for our planes! Comes in its own box too, so get rid of that ridiculously expensive battery box, especially the $1000+ plastic battery box in late model 337s.

https://www.truebluepowerusa.com/pro...nanza-a36-stc/

I may install one via 337 if no PMA solution is available. (I guess 337's for 337's is a tired joke by now on this site )

[n86121]

CAPACITY
Being a nerd, the last time I checked, the concord had 14 AH capacity and the Gil around 10 AH. As to starting, unless you are cranking so long to eat up a a battery, it doesnt matter (for starting, but more about useful life later)

ONLY USED FOR START
Once even one engine is running (above maybe 1,000 RPM for the alternators to, like a cheap woman, 'put out'), the load SHOULD shift entirely to the alternators.

The batteries are then being recharged from excess capacity from the alternators, as well as acting like big filter capacitors on the power bus while charging.

LONG TERM FLOAT VOLTAGE
Different battery chemistries have different optimal voltages for sustained charge (battery minder). While any 'ye olde charger will bring any battery up, "amps are amps." The caveat is what happens when left on a charger for an extended time. That's why better chargers have selectable settings for different batteries, that set the max output voltage appropriate for each type of chemistry.

If the long-term float voltage is a wee bit too high it will slowly 'boil off' (more like slowly simmer) the battery chemistry internally. Over time internal battery resistance will go up, seen as decreased capacity and weak starts under high starter loads.

Similarly, if the alternator max output voltages are too high, like using the wrong battery charger over a long term, you may be cooking your battery chemistry a bit each time flying.

Each time a battery cycles through charge and discharge, its internal chemistry is getting mixed and slightly diluted, so they get weaker over both time and number of cycles.

Thats also why EV manufacturers say to avoid fully charging batteries, the last bit up to the redline charge that works the chemistry hardest.

HOW TO GET MAX YEARS
I go with the max capacity concord. Having more AH initially has ZERO impact on starting (unless you have to keep cranking for extended times), but more importantly, as it ages, it will take more years before its slow decline in capacity gets too low to start the airplane.

CHARGING FLOAT VOLTAGE
I also swallowed hard and bought the specific charger made for it ($300 vs $15), because the precisely right float voltage and desulphating meant the battery would last the longest.

ON TIE DOWN
Lastly, on my tie down, I have a marine gel cell trickle charged by solar panel in a tie down box, with a 12 vdc to 120 VAC inverter, and the $300 charger made for the concord battery.

In my airplane, my 2nd cig lighter(passenger side) is wired to the battery (near master solenoid) with a 7 A fuse. That way I can connect quickly to the battery anytime. Whenever I want to refresh or top off my battery, or do database updates, or whatever, I just plug the $300 DC charger output into cig lighter #2 and presto, battery fully charged and being de-sulphated. The max I leave even the fancy charger on is overnight, and then only occasionally.

FAST CHARGE
I spoke with a concord engineer some years back. He claimed their batteries could handle high current charge just fine, (as they do everytime the airplane is running after the batteries get low).

Within reason of course, 200 AMPS into a near dead battery wont end well, as it would produce too much internal heat. But the typical 4 or even 10 amps from a charger wont hurt it.

Slow charging for extended times is always happier then jamming it all in at once, simply from a heat management standpoint, A 10A charge into a 12 volt battery is literally like sticking a 120 watt light bulb inside the battery.

But most basic chargers are just voltage devices (not constant current), that put out just a bit more voltage than the battery. As the battery under charge voltage gets closer to the chargers intrinsic output voltage, the current into the battery drops off. Which is also why the last 5% takes so long.

And enough about that!