AV Web SIDS Article 12-24-09

skymstr02 · #1 12-24-09, 06:32 AM

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...1538-full.html

Wing Inspections Eyed For High Wing Cessnas

http://www.avweb.com/newspics/cessna337.jpg

The president of the Cessna Skymasters Owners and Pilots Association says thousands of Cessna high-wing aircraft could be affected by a potentially expensive new wing inspection procedure proposed by the company. Herb Harney told AVweb the Supplemental Inspection Documents (SIDs) now being prepared by Cessna will require the removal of the wings of Cessna 336 and 337 push/pull twins, to check wing attach and strut attach bolt fittings for cracks and corrosion. In the U.S., the inspections will be voluntary but those in Part 135 service will be guided by the standard operating procedures of the operator. Harney said that in other countries, however, recommendations by the manufacturer must be met and Skymasters are scattered all over the world. The process is complicated and could cost as much as $60,000 per airplane, more than many Skymasters are currently worth. But the Skymaster shares the same basic wing hardware with all the other Cessna high wings and, under Cessna's current thinking, any aircraft more than 20 years old would be subject to the SIDs, Harney said. AVweb contacted Cessna for comment but the company was unable to respond by our deadline. Harney said U.S. operators may not necessarily escape the inspections.

Harney said Cessna is currently planning on rewriting the aircraft service manuals to include the inspection recommendations. He said maintenance companies, with their normal abundance of caution, may require the inspections before signing off on the aircraft because of the service manual amendments. If that became a common practice, more than 140,000 aircraft could be affected. Harney stressed that the SIDs are still being developed and could be changed but he also said that Cessna is planning implementation of the first SIDs by July of 2010, starting with Cessna 336 models.

Roger · #2 12-24-09, 07:58 AM

What a great scam to force the public into buying your new products. This joke is ripe for a lawsuit. Can you imagine if some sleaze bag marketing exec at Ford tried to get the old Mustangs off the road by claiming that you had to take the entire car apart to see if a bolt was loose, and you couldn't do it yourself. Unbelievable.
We should approach AOPA or the Cessna Owners association to bring a lawsuit to stop this total farce. This will potentially be the end of GA as you know it if it's allowed to happen.

hharney · #3 12-24-09, 09:40 AM

Roger
If history repeats itself the 400 series aircraft owners tried the legal system when these inspections were planned for their fleet. They lost, and their inspection rolled into an AD for the 402 aircraft. Although their safety record was not as clean as ours the potential is there for the FAA to mandate these inspections.

Call me naive but after being at the meetings in Wichita earlier this month I don't think Cessna is truly out to ground these aircraft. I believe that the engineering department has a philosophy that these inspections are inconvenient but should be performed to verify the safe airworthiness of the aircraft. The problem is their philosophy comes from the jet/turbine family that can afford to do these inspections based on the value of the aircraft. Your SOAPA SID team pressed this issue at the meeting and it opened the eyes of the Cessna Customer Service Department to the potential negative impact of owners concerning these inspections. I just hope, as it says in the AvWeb story that Cessna takes a hard look at this potential issue before they give engineering a green light to proceed.

Skymaster337B · #4 12-25-09, 11:36 PM

Call me crazy, but it seems like a simple (and perhaps less expensive) x-ray inspection might reveal the same thing. Who knows how much more damage will occur with the typical wing removal. My vote is for x-ray inspections. How do you think they do this on a 747? X-rays of course.

tropical · #5 12-26-09, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hharney

Roger
If history repeats itself the 400 series aircraft owners tried the legal system when these inspections were planned for their fleet. They lost, and their inspection rolled into an AD for the 402 aircraft. Although their safety record was not as clean as ours the potential is there for the FAA to mandate these inspections.

Call me naive but after being at the meetings in Wichita earlier this month I don't think Cessna is truly out to ground these aircraft. I believe that the engineering department has a philosophy that these inspections are inconvenient but should be performed to verify the safe airworthiness of the aircraft. The problem is their philosophy comes from the jet/turbine family that can afford to do these inspections based on the value of the aircraft. Your SOAPA SID team pressed this issue at the meeting and it opened the eyes of the Cessna Customer Service Department to the potential negative impact of owners concerning these inspections. I just hope, as it says in the AvWeb story that Cessna takes a hard look at this potential issue before they give engineering a green light to proceed.

Herb, you are naive. Cessna never envisioned these airplanes to be flying 30+ years later and carrying the liability of the manufacturer with them. Also old airplanes take away from the sale of new airplanes.

Cessna is simply using it's engineering department as a means to further "weed out" more of these airframes.

tropical · #6 12-26-09, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger

What a great scam to force the public into buying your new products. This joke is ripe for a lawsuit. Can you imagine if some sleaze bag marketing exec at Ford tried to get the old Mustangs off the road by claiming that you had to take the entire car apart to see if a bolt was loose, and you couldn't do it yourself. Unbelievable.
We should approach AOPA or the Cessna Owners association to bring a lawsuit to stop this total farce. This will potentially be the end of GA as you know it if it's allowed to happen.

There is no lawsuit to be had in this. What's your argument? Cessna is placing safety concerns on 30+ year old aircraft?

Cessna is well aware of what they are doing, just go back and review the 400 series Cessna program.

Roger · #7 12-26-09, 06:16 PM

It was my underatnding that there was a "problem" with the 400 series aircraft, and a logical and responsible step was taken to inspect these aircraft due to said "demonstrated" problems. This much like an engine or other components that have "demonstrated" that certain things will happen after a certain time (years or hours of use) , and are as such life limited.

But that's not the same thing here. This is a totally and completely different set of circumstances where there has not been any proven of demonstrated "occurence" that would reasonably require this action, be it on 336's - 337's or any other high wing Cessna, that has been flown inside the normal envelope.

I'm not a conspiracy nut, I am a businessman. And I know the difference between a scam and reasonable practices. While this may seem like a great deal to the A&P's out there, it is well worth fighting on behalf of the owners and operators of these aircraft.

I

WebMaster · #8 12-27-09, 10:05 AM

While it is great to post here, I suggest all who have something to say about this also post at AvWeb. There is a function called AVMail.
It will get a wider response, and serve to broaden the discussion.

http://www.avweb.com/avmail/

WebMaster · #9 01-07-10, 10:57 AM

Cessna does want to pull the wings off your airplane

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...1545-full.html

hharney · #10 01-07-10, 01:11 PM

It is on the AOPA newsletter also

http://us.mg201.mail.yahoo.com/dc/la...=9fmt0kpsr3cmo

rschimizze · #11 01-07-10, 01:18 PM

Will this SID blanket cover all 336 and 337s, or is an AFTT number associated with it?

WebMaster · #12 01-07-10, 01:28 PM

The short answer is yes.
The long answer is it depends. If you take your airplane to a Cessna authorized service center, they will do the inspections according to the new book. If you are only Part 91, and in the USA, your IA may require that you follow the new book, regardless of where you take it. Your IA may be convinced to follow the old book, your existing service manual. Again, it will depend on who and where the inspections are being done. Then again, regardless of where you take it, your insurance company may insist on compliance, as a condition of maintaining insurance coverage.

I say new book, because the SIDs will be incorporated into a new service manual.

WebMaster · #13 01-07-10, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rschimizze

Will this SID blanket cover all 336 and 337s, or is an AFTT number associated with it?

Oh, missed this part of your question.

A. If the airframe is over 20 years old, the SIDS apply.

skymstr02 · #14 01-07-10, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larry bowdish

If the airframe is over 20 years old, the SIDS apply.

And there is a Skymaster newer than 20 years old?

WebMaster · #15 01-07-10, 07:30 PM

I was being a bit facetious.
No,
Which is the point. All Skymasters are eligible for SIDs. Makes it simple. No age discrimination.