P337

[flyag1]

Hi all,
I'm looking for a good to great condition P 337, if anyone knows of a solid one I'm seriously looking. I have cash so not a tire kicker.

No corrosion, no wrecks, no high time airframes, just a good old solid airplane.
If needed a radio shop stop is OK, not interested in a project that needs paint and interior or glass. Engines mid time or less and none of those 1991 overhauls that's been setting for years. I'm hauling the wife and myself across the rockies and need a good ship. Big tanks are a must as we are headed west 1400 miles. One stop going and hopefully non stop headed east.

Thanks,
Dale

for seven nine seven 9er zero 3233

[JimC]

1400 miles....that's a lonnnnng flight. 8 hours at least. My butt won't do that. I do a 1400 mile roundtrip x-c flight reasonably often, but it's always at least 2 legs.

What's your expected price range?

[flyag1]

Originally Posted by JimC

1400 miles....that's a lonnnnng flight. 8 hours at least. My butt won't do that. I do a 1400 mile roundtrip x-c flight reasonably often, but it's always at least 2 legs.

What's your expected price range?

Hi Jim nice to meet you here on the forum, hope to someday actually get to hand shake! Get this damn CV19 behind us.

Anyway yeah its a haul moving our butts 1400 miles, but hey try the drive it's 28 hours. I was flying a Malibu back and forth, there are times even @ FL 250 that you can't glide beyond the next rock so I finally decided enough is enough. Looked at the 340, the P Barron and a few others and came to the conclusion the 337 is a better choice.

As far as pricing, well it depends.

Cheers!
Dale

[JeffAxel]

The P337 is a 5 hour airplane with an hours reserve flown at 65% power, you won't do 1400nm unless you have a really strong tailwind. How much you need to carry? A 148 gallon P337 won't hold over 500lbs in the cabin when full of fuel, some will hold less if air conditioned and with intercoolers for example. There is a 1977 P337 for sale with Dan Howard in Tulsa, asking price is $115K.
https://www.controller.com/listings/...77-cessna-p337

[JimC]

You'll do 1400 nm only sometimes in the winter. You'll have to be at 19,000ft, 55% or less and get a pretty good tailwind - 40-50 knots or more. It'll happen, but not every trip. I don't think you'll ever get 1400nm in the summer.

I've flown a 340 back and forth x-c many times and I'd prefer it over a P337 for that trip. As mentioned earlier, you'll have to have the 337 decked out to have the capability you want (radar, deice, the works) and you're not going to have much load left over.

For a 1000nm trip, I'd pick the P337 - you'll non-stop it often enough to make it faster than a 340. At 1400nm, I'd go back to the 340. You're going to be stopping most of the time anyway.

[flyag1]

Thanks for the input from everyone!

Flying the Malibu Mirage:
Let me first say our long trips have not been that bad as we typically don't have to adhere to a tight schedule. Several trips going west we would just overnight picking a cool town to visit, sort of a mini vacation. When headed east we played the winds aloft, if today is the best winds go... if not then we might wait an extra day. KGOO to KVBT is the route and we are batting 250 for east bound no-stop flights in the Malibu. We don't push fuel, so if we made a 1400 mile trip non-stop we definitely had more than an hour reserve.

Based on book numbers the P337 is very close to the Malibu in max flight times @ 65% power. Malibu tanks are 120 gal whereas the 337 with big tanks has a 30 gal advantage. The 350 HP Malibu is going to burn around 20 GPH once you reach cruise altitude. Speed dependent on chosen FL, but once again the books speeds of both the P337 and Malibu are very close @ FL 200.

Payloads with full tanks are also very near the same with both airplanes. Near nothing... LoL

I like the 337 over other twins for one simple reason "inline". I just don't fly the hours per year to feel comfortable in the right / left configuration if we lost one on takeoff. Don't get me wrong I'm a high time pilot and managed to acquire a shit load of hours, but I'm not flying everyday or even every week. I don't want a VMC roll determining my faith when it's not necessary, but I do want a twin.

Maybe there is a P337 that fits the bill, I'm on the hunt.

[JeffAxel]

The P337 only goes up to FL200. It burns 24gph LOP at 65% power there and will do 185KTAS at that power setting. It isn't a bad aircraft by any means, actually very easy to fly and very stable in IFR conditions, but it will not have the range of a Malibu. The inline thrust is a big plus, and why I bought one as well. No 337 is FIKI, and they lose quite a bit of speed with any ice buildup beyond a 1/4" or so. Just putting this out there so you don't buy one and find out it won't do what you want it to do, but if 1000nm is okay, and you find a good example, it is the least expensive pressurized twin you can own. I still miss mine.

[flyag1]

Originally Posted by JeffAxel

The P337 only goes up to FL200. It burns 24gph LOP at 65% power there and will do 185KTAS at that power setting. It isn't a bad aircraft by any means, actually very easy to fly and very stable in IFR conditions, but it will not have the range of a Malibu. The inline thrust is a big plus, and why I bought one as well. No 337 is FIKI, and they lose quite a bit of speed with any ice buildup beyond a 1/4" or so. Just putting this out there so you don't buy one and find out it won't do what you want it to do, but if 1000nm is okay, and you find a good example, it is the least expensive pressurized twin you can own. I still miss mine.

Thanks Jeff,
Do you know the climb rate @ 20K?

[JimC]

Don't forget your Mirage had 5.5 psi differential, and the 337 has 3.35. That means much more fatigue buildup per hour The Mirage runs an 8,000 ft cabin at FL250 and the 337 runs a 9,200 ft cabin at FL190. You'll also get less of a tailwind 6,000 ft lower.

Published max climb at FL200 for a T337G is 870 fpm at gross. You're going to have pretty hot engines trying to get that rate on anything warmer than an ISA day.

[JeffAxel]

What JimC said. The P337 needs to be at 120KIAS or more to stay cool enough in climb most of the year, 500fpm is realistic with acceptable temps, although there are some cooling mods that can help I am told, no personal experience although my plane had intercoolers. The P337 has a 10,000ft cabin at FL200, and its max ceiling is FL200 according to the limitations in the POH. It is not a stellar climber, and this can be a big problem in icing conditions.

[flyag1]

Originally Posted by JeffAxel

What JimC said. The P337 needs to be at 120KIAS or more to stay cool enough in climb most of the year, 500fpm is realistic with acceptable temps, although there are some cooling mods that can help I am told, no personal experience although my plane had intercoolers. The P337 has a 10,000ft cabin at FL200, and its max ceiling is FL200 according to the limitations in the POH. It is not a stellar climber, and this can be a big problem in icing conditions.

Jeff, the way you describe the performance of a P337 could be mistaken for a Malibu. Almost one in the same.

There is a marked difference tho, I'll give an example using Santa Fe with an elevation of 6350. Leaving there on an 80 degree day with full tanks and 2 peeps with 400#'s of my wives stuff. Full throttle and away, rotate @ 70+ and stagger into the air, fold the gear, dump flaps and get ready for the ride of your life because it's going to be a minute or more waiting to build the speed necessary to get her on the step. If the engine stuttered just once during this phase of flight your going to hit something really hard. Once you get above 140 or so the wing begins to fly, but that can take some time. And until you get the wing flying I don't thing you have a chance in hell of flaring if the engine fails. Its going to be a hard stop.

Now from my experience flying a N/A 337 once you rotate the wing is solid and if something was to go wrong you have a fighting chance.

Per book and the post below, a P337 @ FL 200 burns 24 GPH with 150 gal tanks. Simple math says that give you 6.25 hrs till tanks are dry. The Malibu will burn 20 GPH at the same Alt... and using the simple math that gives you 6 hours. The speed is nearly the same for both: only difference is the 337 has 2 power-plants to maintain and the high lift wing.

I wish the 337 had the 5.5 PSI cabin but hey I'll take the safety of having 2 engines and maybe sucking on O2 at times over following the single TSIO540 across the tall rocks.

Just need to find a good airplane. It's more difficult then I first thought, as of now the only P on the market that I've not ruled out is the Mid Content one in MO. I need to call on that one: N27JA

[JimC]

It sounds like you've got a decent handle on both planes.

I'm pretty sure you won't find a well-equipped P model that can carry full tanks, 2 adults, and 400 lbs of stuff under gross weight. It's definitely going to be a rare bird.

If you plan on flying out of high DA airports regularly, I'd pay very close attention to your weight. I literally flew a loaded* P337 out of Santa Fe on an 80 degree day two weeks ago (82 degrees, actually.) It does just fine with both engines turning. I'm convinced that losing an engine on departure in that scenario would lead to a crash if you're going north, east or west (rising terrain) and a very white-knuckled ride going south (terrain descends very gradually.) The book says you'd be climbing at roughly 100'/minute if you're doing nothing wrong *after* you're cleaned up and feathered. The chances of a successful outcome from a failure below 1000' AGL are low, and you know that you have roughly twice the chance of an engine failure. Once you're up at altitude the second engine switches sides and adds safety, not reduces it.

It'll do what you're asking except:
Provide extra safety on high DA departures at gross weight
Carry 2 adults, 400 lbs of wife stuff, and full tanks
Go 1400 nm - even rarely


*The P337 I flew had an empty weight of 3249. Add full fuel (150 * 6.0) and you're at 4149. That leaves 551 lbs for people & bags.

[hharney]

Originally Posted by flyag1

J as of now the only P on the market that I've not ruled out is the Mid Content one in MO. I need to call on that one: N27JA

Has anyone looked at N2QF

https://www.controller.com/listings/...77-cessna-p337

[flyag1]

Originally Posted by hharney

Has anyone looked at N2QF

https://www.controller.com/listings/...77-cessna-p337

I tried but could not work with the dealer: then I contacted the owner and he referred me back to the dealer.

You would not believe the text message I have on my phone from that dealer himself.... it's shocking to say the least. I also talked to a couple of locals that know the dealer and they said stay away... Now these are A&P's and IA's that work in the Area.

Sadly this airplane is less then a 2 hour drive from my front door... go figure.

[JeffAxel]

N27JA is not pressurized if the picture I saw of it is correct.