Anyone have EI CGR engine instruments?

[saxbill]

Originally Posted by Learjetter

Just FYI - - I've got some FAA airworthiness guys working with DER/DAR at EI to get the EI CGR-30P approved for skymasters. Eventually, EI wants the 337 on the AML for the CGR-30P combo STC. No word yet on completion dates for the project, but EI is working on it.

Who were you speaking with at EI? I have cash in hand if they come up with and STC for the CGR-30P Combo. I've looked into doing a field approval, but it'll add at least $3000 to the cost of the system which would cause me to go a different direction. I would much rather have the CGR30 system.

[Learjetter]

Originally Posted by saxbill

Who were you speaking with at EI? I have cash in hand if they come up with and STC for the CGR-30P Combo. I've looked into doing a field approval, but it'll add at least $3000 to the cost of the system which would cause me to go a different direction. I would much rather have the CGR30 system.

I last spoke with EI in early April 2021 when they advertised a sale for Sun-N-Fun. The process for an individual field approval engineering and adding the aircraft to the AML is nearly identical on their end, so they're opting to get the CGR-30P & CGR-30C approved for the 336/337 and added to the STC AML. I was assured it was "upcoming" on their list, and we'd see them complete their work "soon"--then a bit longer for FAA approval. I came away from the conversation with the impression it'll be a reality this calendar year, and maybe as early as summertime. I am ready to order the day they tell me we got on the AML. So, I remain optimistic.

Have you decided on the configuration you're looking for (functions, etc.)? The order form is pretty detailed and offers lots of interesting options!

[saxbill]

Originally Posted by Learjetter

I last spoke with EI in early April 2021 when they advertised a sale for Sun-N-Fun. The process for an individual field approval engineering and adding the aircraft to the AML is nearly identical on their end, so they're opting to get the CGR-30P & CGR-30C approved for the 336/337 and added to the STC AML. I was assured it was "upcoming" on their list, and we'd see them complete their work "soon"--then a bit longer for FAA approval. I came away from the conversation with the impression it'll be a reality this calendar year, and maybe as early as summertime. I am ready to order the day they tell me we got on the AML. So, I remain optimistic.

Have you decided on the configuration you're looking for (functions, etc.)? The order form is pretty detailed and offers lots of interesting options!

I'll send them a note expressing my hope that they are working to add the Skymaster to the AML, in the hopes that it continues the momentum that seems to be there. I did look through the options, but there are SO MANY that I'm really going to dedicate time to work through all of it. I'd love to hear how you plan to set things up.

[Learjetter]

Originally Posted by saxbill

I'll send them a note expressing my hope that they are working to add the Skymaster to the AML, in the hopes that it continues the momentum that seems to be there. I did look through the options, but there are SO MANY that I'm really going to dedicate time to work through all of it. I'd love to hear how you plan to set things up.

I have no idea (yet)...was hoping to glean some good ideas from you!

[saxbill]

Originally Posted by Learjetter

I have no idea (yet)...was hoping to glean some good ideas from you!

Here is the very encouraging reply from EI:
---------------
We are currently working with the FAA on a two other projects, we anticipate these projects to be completed within a month or two. Once these projects are completed we will be moving forward with the CGR-30P/C AML update to include the Skymaster. Working with the FAA has slowed down a little bit, due to COVID, but I hope to have the updated AML before the end of this year.

Please feel free to check back with us in about two months to get an update. Hopefully we will know more by then.
Thank you.


Mac S. Speed
Electronics International Inc.
---------------------
I'll let you know if I start to figure out our config!

[Trippster]

I have a 1975 337G with the long range tanks. I'm putting in the EI CGR-30's and I have the total fuel, but does anyone know how many gallons are in each tank on this model? I know the Aux feeds the Mains directly, but I'm told we have 4 fuel sensors, so I need to know how many gallons are in the Aux side and how many in the main.

Thanks,

Tripp

[hayesjaj]

Originally Posted by Trippster

I have a 1975 337G with the long range tanks. I'm putting in the EI CGR-30's and I have the total fuel, but does anyone know how many gallons are in each tank on this model? I know the Aux feeds the Mains directly, but I'm told we have 4 fuel sensors, so I need to know how many gallons are in the Aux side and how many in the main.

Thanks,

Tripp

The senders for yours are essentially wired in parallel (via the conditioner box) because the tanks are plumbed together. The multiple sensors are used to determine fuel level when the wing isn’t level and the fuel moves toward one side or the other. You shouldn’t need the capacity of the aux at all. Give EI a call and they will walk you through it but only specify two tanks total for your order.

[Trippster]

Originally Posted by hayesjaj

The senders for yours are essentially wired in parallel (via the conditioner box) because the tanks are plumbed together. The multiple sensors are used to determine fuel level when the wing isn’t level and the fuel moves toward one side or the other. You shouldn’t need the capacity of the aux at all. Give EI a call and they will walk you through it but only specify two tanks total for your order.

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense to me, but I am not mechanical at all. I'll just specify the 2 tanks and I assume the wiring will tap into the conditioner box for the value. Appreciate the help

[saxbill]

Originally Posted by Trippster

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense to me, but I am not mechanical at all. I'll just specify the 2 tanks and I assume the wiring will tap into the conditioner box for the value. Appreciate the help

I spoke with EI about a similar question. On our 337D, the mains and aux are separate, so there will be separate displays for the main/aux. However, the mains actually have two tanks on each side and two senders for each side (6 senders total if you include the aux tanks). EI said that you will need a sender for each physical tank and they will provide an extra interface free of charge to combine all of the signals from each sender (so in my case for the mains) into on signal that will go to the CGR30 EDC. Given this, I'd say you would just need total usable per side.

[Learjetter]

Originally Posted by saxbill

Here is the very encouraging reply from EI:
---------------
We are currently working with the FAA on a two other projects, we anticipate these projects to be completed within a month or two. Once these projects are completed we will be moving forward with the CGR-30P/C AML update to include the Skymaster. Working with the FAA has slowed down a little bit, due to COVID, but I hope to have the updated AML before the end of this year.

Please feel free to check back with us in about two months to get an update. Hopefully we will know more by then.
Thank you.


Mac S. Speed
Electronics International Inc.
---------------------
I'll let you know if I start to figure out our config!

All,
I got an email similar to the one above in June.

June 2021 Update on progress:
I am less enthusiastic about equipping with CGR-30 this year. I started inquiries with EI in prep for annual last December, and as of June 2021--they've not even sent in the AML update paperwork yet. In anticipation of such a delay, I asked my FSDO about the field approval process--and they wouldn't even consider it. My FSDO sent this:

"It is indicated in the Major Repair alteration job aid provided in the attached Advisory circular 43-210A CHG 1, that for Major Repair /Alteration Approval in the Normal, Utility, Acrobatic, and Commuter Category Airplanes; regarding; avionics; installation (element) D.13k (description) Electronic flight instrument systems (EFIS) that display primary flight information to meet regulatory operating requirements. (Classification) STC
Noting the element and the classification that is proposed, the installation is not within the scope of a FSDO ASI to accept, based on the information provide. It is recommended to apply for a STC or seek out an existing approved STC installation for the Cessna Aircraft model 337G."

--Translation: I asked the question wrongly...or failed to provide the right information...or it's a no-go until AML is updated...

Note: I did not mention that other Skymaster owners were attempting CGR-30 field approvals, and getting better results that I got. YMMV. If anyone gets CGR-30 field approval, would you please post your "approved data" so others can try?

Here's the list of what's out there now (only EIS-TXI requires dealer install):

Unit STC? Est. Base Cost Notes
EI CGR-30* NO $12180 Fits current panel
EI MVP-50 YES $14580 panel mod
JPI EDM960 YES $15590 panel mod
GI-275 EIS NO** $10600 Interface with FS210 & Garmin Pilot
EIS-TXI* NO** $16885 alone or + $9480 with G-500Txi installation

Insight G4 YES $5500 Twin G4 can replace EGT/CHT only

*Both Garmin and EI say they're working on AML updates to include C-337 aircraft, but apparently, these are slow processes, and completion of such projects in 2021 for 2022 installations is a "maybe."

** I spoke to a friendly Garmin dealer about self-installing GI-275 as EIS. No problem, says he...let's just double-check the limitations section of the installation manual...lo and behold, there is a limitation that states "Do not install as EIS in centerline-thrust aircraft" Turns out, the SAME limitation exists in the Garmin EIS TXI installation manual. So, even though the Skymaster is on the STC/AML for these units...they still cannot be installed in a Skymaster as EIS. And, my friendly FSDO guy says to install a non-STC EIS system takes an Engineering Eval at the Wichita ACO...so you need to hire a DER to write up an approval package for the ACO, which will cost plenty, and then wait a couple years to see if it's approved.

--Since engine indication/monitoring is a priority for me, I'm now leaning towards the JPI EDM-960. Anyone know how much we can get for a kidney these days?

--LJ

[hayesjaj]

I received a similar response from the FSDO in San Diego and was flat out rejected by a number of DERs in the area, so at the moment my project is going to move forward with more limited engine instruments (I have a JPI 760 already).

As a side note I have a spreadsheet that looks almost exactly like yours. Only suggestion is that the MVP 50 P may be a good choice around air venture time when EI usually gives a 2k discount. I heard from the tech at my shop that JPI is backed up with orders for months, so you may want to contact them about lead time.

Good luck and let us know which way you go.

J

Originally Posted by Learjetter

All,
I got an email similar to the one above in June.

June 2021 Update on progress:
I am less enthusiastic about equipping with CGR-30 this year. I started inquiries with EI in prep for annual last December, and as of June 2021--they've not even sent in the AML update paperwork yet. In anticipation of such a delay, I asked my FSDO about the field approval process--and they wouldn't even consider it. My FSDO sent this:

"It is indicated in the Major Repair alteration job aid provided in the attached Advisory circular 43-210A CHG 1, that for Major Repair /Alteration Approval in the Normal, Utility, Acrobatic, and Commuter Category Airplanes; regarding; avionics; installation (element) D.13k (description) Electronic flight instrument systems (EFIS) that display primary flight information to meet regulatory operating requirements. (Classification) STC
Noting the element and the classification that is proposed, the installation is not within the scope of a FSDO ASI to accept, based on the information provide. It is recommended to apply for a STC or seek out an existing approved STC installation for the Cessna Aircraft model 337G."

--Translation: I asked the question wrongly...or failed to provide the right information...or it's a no-go until AML is updated...

Note: I did not mention that other Skymaster owners were attempting CGR-30 field approvals, and getting better results that I got. YMMV. If anyone gets CGR-30 field approval, would you please post your "approved data" so others can try?

Here's the list of what's out there now (only EIS-TXI requires dealer install):

Unit STC? Est. Base Cost Notes
EI CGR-30* NO $12180 Fits current panel
EI MVP-50 YES $14580 panel mod
JPI EDM960 YES $15590 panel mod
GI-275 EIS YES $10600 Interface with FS210 & Garmin Pilot
EIS-TXI* NO $16885 alone or + $9480 with G-500Txi installation

Insight G4 YES $5500 Twin G4 can replace EGT/CHT only

*Both Garmin and EI say they're working on AML updates to include C-337 aircraft, but apparently, these are slow processes, and completion of such projects in 2021 for 2022 installations is a "maybe."

--Since engine indication/monitoring is a priority for me, I'm now leaning towards the JPI EDM-960. Anyone know how much we can get for a kidney these days?

--LJ