propeller governors

[cessnadriver]

Hello ALL.
Got a question, REF: propeller governors?I have a 1965 Cessna Skymaster C337, that has Woodward Model 210443. The trouble seems that the pitch change, during run up, does not start until the levers are about 2/3 the way to the feather position? Another C337 owner says his starts the pitch change almost immediately?
Think my governors need overhauled? I’d appreciate your thoughts.
BILLS

[hharney]

Governor and/or prop. Could be some restriction in the journal through the crank too. I went from McCauley to MT's back in 2002. Kept the same governors, but always noticed that the feather on the rear was always more responsive than the front. Rear engine had been replaced and governor OVH'd more recent than the front. Looking at my logs not sure the front governor had ever been done. Replaced the front engine in 2015 and had the front governor OVH'd and SHAZAM the front now is just as responsive as the rear. Rear governor was OVH'd the next year due to some issues with the prop hub and prop was OVH'd so Rear continues to be consistent. When the rear prop was removed 2 years ago there was quite a bit of sludge in the journal. Not to the point it would restrict but sizable amount, I thought.

How long and how many hours on the governors? I have some photos of the sludge if you happen to pull your prop to inspect.

[cessnadriver]

Thanks Herb.
I'm not sure on the governors times. Since I have another 1965 C337 in my garage I took the rear governor off it, which by the way, DOES NOT HAVE THE ACCUMULATOR ATTACHMENT, I cleaned it with diesel fuel to HOPEFULLY clean out any sludge. Installed the governor did a run up and the propeller cycle was about the same. The maintenance manual says to install a governor that you are sure is functional, but my other airplane is the same age with missing logs so who know what condition it really is?? Anyways I called a governor shop here in Pennsylvania, he told me it would be about $1400 to overhaul mine. He also said that they had new governors for about $2500. My governors are all Woodward and according to the shop they are usually more expensive to overhaul due to the fact they are much older model that say McClauley. I know that the TCDS lists McClauley governor as an alternative. Maybe I can change to a McClauley for about the same price as an overhauled Woodward?? Another question. When you do the prop cycle do you cycle both props at the same time? A friend of mine says he cycle the props together and that the two governor should cycle at the same rate?? I've read and re-read the AFM (Owners manual) about cycling the props and it doesn't say anything about doing the cycle together? Your thoughts?
Regards, BILLS

[kilr4d]

Hi Bill,

Recently my rear governor was starting to act up....less responsive than the front; not always able to pull takeoff rpm, losing rpm in the climb, gaining rpm in the descent. Time for an overhaul.

I have the McCauley unit with prop synchrophaser. I just sent mine to H&S Propeller in Michigan since they're right across the border from me. We're hoping for 5 day turnaround. I'm anticipating $900 for the o/h.

If you look at McCauley application guide the Cessna 337 starts on page B-244

Guide here: https://mccauley.txtav.com/-/media/m...files/mag.ashx

There are various changeups on the part numbers, but Quality Aircraft Accessories seems to carry the McCauley governor for $1395 exchange + a $500 core charge. They will overhaul a McCauley starting at $695

Here's the page: https://www.qaa.com/products/aircraf...auley-governor

To answer your question I cycle my props one at a time...I like to watch RPM, oil pressure and manifold pressure while I'm cycling the props.

[cessnadriver]

John K.
Thanks for the reply. I checked out the prop/governor guide compared it with the TCDS they agree. So I'm going to check around for some overhauled MCCauley governors since they are much cheaper to overhaul VS my old Woodward governors?? Appreciate the commit about cycling your props, hopefully I can convince my MEI?
Regards, BILLS

[kilr4d]

Originally Posted by cessnadriver

John K.
Thanks for the reply. I checked out the prop/governor guide compared it with the TCDS they agree. So I'm going to check around for some overhauled MCCauley governors since they are much cheaper to overhaul VS my old Woodward governors??

Also check a few of the wrecking yards for a core....Dodsons, Texas Air Salvage, Wentworth, etc.

Originally Posted by cessnadriver

Appreciate the commit about cycling your props, hopefully I can convince my MEI?
Regards, BILLS

Unfortunately I've seen quite a few instructors that have learned (and taught) bad habits and old wives tales about airplanes...

[hharney]

Bill

It's all based on how you perform your pre-flight run-up. Back in the day dad always brought both engines up at the same time and did the mag check first then pulled the props left, right, left, right, left, right. For some reason old school technique always thought you had to cycle 3 times. After 42 years in this airplane I have settled on my own technique, I bring up the rear engine first, oil is always warmer after the taxi out to run-up area, I then perform the mag check very slowly watching and listening. First watch the Tachometer for drop, then scan the EGT's for rise (make sure you have enough mixture set for best power as I always lean for taxi) always go back to BOTH on the mags and let it stabilize before you switch to the other mag. Then I pull the prop into feather ONCE watching the oil press and listening (with the front engine idling I have a better sound from the rear) and then make sure when you push the prop back up to high the RPM returns to the home spot you started at. Take your time. Then idle the rear and perform the same on the front.

Quality Aircraft Acc have OVHL'd Woodward governors. I like Woodward, but I am sure the McCauleys will be fine also

[TomeHill79]

I just had both of my Woodward governors overhauled by H&S Propeller in White Lake, MI for $3000. H&S was much cheaper than everyone else and have heard many great reviews! Good piece of mind for long XC’s in the future.

[cessnadriver]

Yep I spent $1400 on one and $1700 on the other. So we're about the same.
Thanks for the info.
BILLS

[fsnewton]

Not sure if this is the issue, but I had a similar issue on my rear prop during feather check. The feather adjustment nut wasn't properly set. When I adjusted it, it worked fine afterwards. Mine is on a T337G (P).

Scott
N84E

[Learjetter]

Just a quick thread update: I called several prop governor overhaul shops today to get quick quote ideas on cost and lead-time. Here's what I found out:

Supposedly, I have McCauley CF310D1/T1 or CF310D2/T1 governors (per the TDCS) with prop sync, and these are "old numbers", and the numbers are hard to look up and get good quotes, so take everything here with a grain of salt.

My logs say front gov was OH in 1999, the rear gov in 2012. OH engines went on in 2014 and 2018, and MT props in 2014, but no mention of governor OH at the time either the engines or props were installed.

McCauley recommends 5 years or 1800 hours TBO.

My symptoms include "slower than I'm happy with" responses on the feather check, and a little 20-40 RPM "hunting" in climb/cruise.

H&S propeller shop: $1050 each with a 10 day turnaround. Yes, he quoted me $1050 each, but I think I'd expect something closer to $1500 based on previous posts in this thread.

Tiffin Aire: $1500 each with a 5-7 day turnaround

Quality Aircraft Accessories (QAA): : $1520 each and 10-12 day turnaround

Aircraft Accessories of Oklahoma: $1600 each and 30 day turnaround (or $+175 AOG fee to jump to head of the line).

Based on this small survey, H&S is the winner in 2023. Are there any other shops you've used and can recommend?

-LJ

[TomM]

As a follow up, H&S did my governor overhaul in March and it came in at $1100 which is right about what they told me it would be (mine is a Woodward). However, I was also told about a week turnaround time but in reality it was a month. So I think they are pretty good on the pricing, but the timing ends up being longer than anticipated. They do all my propeller work and I will continue to use them as they have always done a fine job.

During my engine rebuild, NO ONE has been even close to meeting the schedule they originally noted, so H&S isnt any different than anyone else out there in the aviation arena. I just think that is the way it goes and we have to expect delays in lead-times.

[cessnadriver]

I sent mine to a Prop shop in California, but can't remember the their name. I can check my logs tomorrow, if needed. They charged $1500 and $1700 due to extra parts required. The governors are the accumulator type. I also sent them my non-accumulator type I think the price was about the same. Return around was about a week.
Regards, BILLS

[Kim Geyer]

I have 2 DCF310D7 governors for sale on eBay. They were overhauled last year but the 5 year TBO doesn’t start till they are installed they do not have prop synch stuff on them
$1800 ea. outright no core required