$700 from Nashville

[Dale Campbell]

I agree with the folks that want to give the cash to Kevin, to keep this site alive, or to get out the mailing to all Skymaster owners to join our great group. The more input we have the more we all will benefit. I will go along with what ever you decide on the Corp. idea, but I do not think it is the best thing at this time. On the next meeting. I would like to see it in the Central US states. I would not be able to fly to the West Coast. Just to far and with my business cant get away that long. Just my 2 cents. Dale

[kevin]

In response to Don Hickman's joking comment WAY up there (busy board lately), the individual contributions folks make are gifts, according to my accountant, so no tax issue. The single corporate sponsor donation received *is* taxable, and we will declare it and any simililar sponsor donations as personal income on our next return.

You can have an organization without a corp, just elect officers and go for it. A plain, taxable, corporation is easy, but the ownership of the corporation might be hard. Some states (my attorney teaches me) have very strict laws about distribution of stock in a C corp. A non-profit corp is too much work, in my opinion, but that is only my opinion, y'all are welcome to put one together if you would like.

We will facilitate communication for the group with the site, however it is structured, or not structured.

It seems to me, though, that most of what makes an organization go is a few folks donating a lot of their time. I think pulling together a few more fly-ins would be a better use of time that forming an official organization. Once you have a core group of folks who regularly attend the fly-ins, then you can use those fly-ins to organize formally, with absentee ballots for the folks that can't attend, or something like that.

I think the most important group of volunteers to be found is the group who volunteer to put on our next fly-in, and I think that is where the focus should be.

My 2 cents, worth less than that, probably.

Kevin

[Kevin McDonnell]

Maybe this has already been beaten to death ...

It seems like selecting a legal business structure without a clearly defined objective is putting the cart before the horse. Partnerships, Corps (S & C), and LLC's all have a place and purpose. It's not clear what problem any of these would be solving.

Furthermore, as previously mentioned, there is overhead to having these business structures - such as tax filings, annual meetings, shareholder mailings, etc. Depending on where the entity exists (and where its owners/shareholders reside), there can be further fees. For instance, in California there is an $800 annual fee for C corps. I think Delaware only charges something like $100/yr for an LLC.

In any case, I think a very compelling reason would be a prerequisite before venturing off in this direction. I really doubt it's worth it.

[WebMaster]

There should be a corp to ensure continuity, organize events, plan, schedule/pay for meetings, meet AV needs, generally lend legitimacy to our efforts.

I voted for it in April, I vote for it now.

[rick bell]

this site started out as a way to share information and experiences, with the possibility of gathering once in a while.
i do not mind contribution money to the maintenance and effort by the webmaster. however the fun and enjoyment of this site is starting to wane rapidally. llc, corp sub "s" manditory reservation and deposits (really sounds like the "cpa") lets leave the crap to the professional sites (which actually only collect monies and despense very little on anythink of value). lets send kieven money (i wholehartly agree with) forget accountability (i do not care what he does with it, get drunk or hopefully he collects enough to buy a new 337; but i for one do not want to see any stinken reciept!

rick bell

ps: kieven "e" me and i will send a resonablle donation if we are going to "kiss"

[Ernie Martin]

At the risk of repeating myself, I'm with Rick.

Ernie

[kevin]

I've already spoken my piece on the organization stuff.

I do want to point out that the organization of a meeting, the organization of an organization, etc. has little to do with the site.

The site will stay as it is, an communication medium for all Skymaster Owners and Pilots. The site will publicize any meetings that are organized that we become aware of, and will help keep folks aware of any organization that is formed.

If folks are getting tired of all the meeting discussions and organization discussions, I can make a separate forum for that, and those that are interested can read it, those that aren't can skip it.

Should I do that? I just want to do whatever I can do to make the site as useful to everyone as I can.

Kevin

[FRED-E]

I am with rick except for the "kiss" !!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh you mean "keep it simple stupid" LOL
Fred

[Dale Campbell]

To keep it short, I agree with Rick. Dale

[SteveG]

Keven, The 50 bucks I chipped in at Nashville was provided unconditionally to promote the best interests of the group. At the time that was largely to defray the costs incurred by the meeting organizers. In as much as they have generously declined to accept further compensation I would like to suggest the money be provided to Kevin to be invested as he sees fit, ie. web site maintenance, promotional mailing, '04 meeting notice, etc.
Concerning the question of incorporation, I fail to see the benefit outweighing the hassle. Possibly this could be a topic for a more formal presentation at the '04 meeting and decided by majority opinion. My present thoughts are that such formality is unnecessary and possibly counterproductive.

[Jerry De Santis]

When you all talk about why the need for an organization it is clear some of you don't know what is involved in setting up a meeting or the responsibility. I am not just talking about the money aspect of ensuring meeting rooms and personal expenses or making it easier (which an offical organization will) to attract good speakers. Let's look at the legal thing that here in the USA is always a concern.

Last year in our Nashville meeting, I learned from some very good lawyers, the fact I organized the meeting, as remote as it is, should anyone attending the meeting come to ill fate while traveling to and from the meeting, I am open to legal action. I am not a legal mind but I am a businessman and and under those conditions, no one wins. I really enjoy this site, I contribute to it, I organizied and conducted the second meeting in Nashville and I will do so again. Everbody has a right to put there two cents in and that is great. But if all jump on each band wagon that floats by, nothing is going to get done.

No one is forcing anyone to either organize a meeting or go to one. A group of well intending folk's got together in Nashville. learned a little about their planes, met some very nice people that I am sure will result in life long friendships for some, and would like to continue along that path.

Kevin, our very good web site host WHO SPENT A LOT OF HIS TIME AND MONEY TO GIVE US THIS OPPORTUNITY TO CHAT LIKE THIS,has made it very clear about his legal concern of us calling our "MEETING GROUP" SOAP for fear of a direct connection to his web site. Thus, the MEETING GROUP name SOAPA was suggested to establish that legal separation and, it is a good idea. Remember, for every benifit we receive, someone must do something for that benifit to happen. Asking for a legal organization that gives a little protection to those who are trying to hold a meeting so many can benifit and have a good time, in my opinion, is not asking for a lot.

Again, my two cents----or, is it now four cents.

At this point it only comes down to one thing. If a meeting was to be held, how many will come. If enough commit to coming and sharing and learning, that's all that is required, no need to bash this around and around. If enough people agree to create an organization it will happen. To suggest at this point we don't need a legal organization, well folks, I believe we are past that issue. Lets move on and get things done.

Jerry

Jerry