I think I want a 337

[larrysb]

I'm thinking about my next airplane and I think I want a 337. I've been doing a bunch of reading of this site and others in my initial research phase. One of the things I'm researching are known gotchas and quirks for the various models.

I'm not multi or IR rated yet, I'm working on the IFR in my Cherokee. Which brings up the almighty insurance question: What are they going to require? Luckily, I know an instructor with a lot of time in a 337.

Also, I'm having a tough time sorting out the various performance numbers. There is a lot of conflicting information on the net that doesn't seem to add up.

As far as useful load and CG goes, is there a sample W&B I can look at that is fairly representative? For instance, my Cherokee is nose heavy. Two in the front seat may be out of forward CG.

Since I live on the west coast and I'd like to cross mountains sometimes, a turbo or even pressurised model would be appealing.

[kevin]

It's hard to sort your questions out from your message. You might do better, for example, posting a message that says "Can you please post your empty weight and momoment for your airplane, along with the year model?" I think folks would answer a specific question like that more readily.

You asked about quirks with the various models, and that is a really hard question to answer in a single message. The Cessna Pilots Association has a list of the differences between models, and it runs several 8 1/2 by 11 pages. You get this info when you attend their systems and procedures course, but if you join their organization, I suspect they would send it to you. Here is a capsule of *some* of the major differences, done quickly from memory.

* The 336 was produced one year, has 195HP continuous engines, fixed gear, and a very different rear engine cooling system than all other models (single large cowl flap on top of the engine, rather than a fixed scoop)

* From the '65 337 to the '72, there are a number of gross weight increases. All of these airplanes have main and aux tanks (I suppose someone may have ordered one without the aux, but I have never seen one like that). There are normally aspirated models, and starting in (I think) about '67 there are turbo models available.

* In 73, the turbo model was temporarily dropped, replaced by the pressurized model. There were also normally aspirated available. Both are based on the same, newer body style, with an airstair door rather than the standard Cessna door used previously. They have main tanks only, but the capacity is the same as the previous main/aux combination, about 123 gals usable, so fuel management is simpler. The gear was changed from engine driven hydraulic to electrohydraulic at this year.

* In 75 the larger, 146 gal tanks because available. In 76, the back seat was changed to one that slides from the rear to the front of the cabin rather than being in a fixed position. Turbo (but not pressurized) models came back somewhere in here, my memory says '78, but I am not sure.

As for things to look for, other than getting a well maintained one (see other messages on this subject on this site), today are there are suprisingly few things to pay close attention to. To again hit the high points (meaning you need to research all of this more closely, as I am omitting important details):

* There are a very few airplanes around that are still on their first engine runs (TT and engine time less than 1500 hours) which have light case engines. You should check the engines on these airplanes VERY carefully for case cracks, and plan on an overhaul soon.

* Except for the 336 (I think), all 337 models require a spar inspection at 5000 hours, and every X hours after that, except for pressurized airplanes where the inspection begins at 10,000 hours instead. You can read more about this test in other messages on this site. If the airplane has been used for pipeline patrol or similar low level use, the test is due earlier, 3000 hours if I recall correctly. I would have an airplane that has had this use tested before buying it, regardless of hours, if it were up to me.

* Control cables are becoming an area for examination and proactive replacement, see other messages for more.

* The Cessna autopilots, while a great piece of equipment, are becoming increasingly hard to maintain. It is a significant plus if an Stec or other autopilot has been installed in the airplane.

Other than that, it is all the usual stuff for any airplane you might buy: get the AD's and paperwork checked, and I can't emphasize enough (in my opinion), *don't buy a "fixer upper"* unless you have access to free maintenance labor. You'll never recover the money it takes to get the airplane up to snuff. And there are lots of "fixer uppers" around, because the airplane is cheap relative to other twins, and folks with limited budgets buy them, then are unable to pay the normal costs of owning a twin, so they defer a lot of maintenance, which you get to pay for after you buy it.

That's the stuff that comes off the top of my head. I am sure I got some of it wrong, and others will correct me. Ask some more specific questions, and many folks here will be glad to offer opinions and assistance from their experience.

Kevin
webmaster@337skymaster.com

[larrysb]

Thanks for the information, that was actually helpful to me.

Let me rephrase the above ramble:

I'm considering a Skymaster when I upgrade from my Cherokee 180. I've been reading everything I can find and still not sure where to start. A lot of conflicting information on the web out there.

Would like to find some pointers to reliable performance data, such fuel burn and real-world cruising speeds, useful load and so on.

If anyone has a W&B chart they can share, I'd be interested in seeing the CG range on an actual plane.

I'm also curious about insurance requirements, I have about 300hrs, but no IR or multi ticket yet.

Thanks.

(hopefully, that was better)

[Ernie Martin]

I think you will find that the W&B is not an issue, because there is a wide range of acceptable CGs (I'm on my second 337 and have carried unbelievable loads, including 360 lbs of concrete and a full-size bathtub, and never ran afoul or even had to make adjustments, aside from the max load of cargo in the rear. So you ought to get a good idea of useful load if people with P ot T models post their useful loads here (I have a normally aspirated 337G with a take-off gross weight of 4630 lbs and a take-off useful load of 1664 lbs).

I assume you have read the postings here on "What to look for when buying a Skymaster" and also an existing page in Peter's old Skymaster website which deals with this topic at www.skymaster.org.uk/purchase.asp (it is a depository of information gathered over the years from savvy Skymaster owners to the typical questions asked by prospective buyers).

Ernie

[WebMaster]

Originally posted by larrysb
Thanks for the information, that was actually helpful to me.

Let me rephrase the above ramble:


Would like to find some pointers to reliable performance data, such fuel burn and real-world cruising speeds, useful load and so on.

If anyone has a W&B chart they can share, I'd be interested in seeing the CG range on an actual plane.

I'm also curious about insurance requirements, I have about 300hrs, but no IR or multi ticket yet.

Thanks.

(hopefully, that was better)

Some comments. Weight and balance is a good thing. I used to do it all the time, when I flew something else. I had my bro-inlaw, my sister, my mom, and I, 1/2 tanks, flew from DAL to ABI. Put some in at ABI, flew back. My bro-inlaw said "Is weight going to be an issue, because between the two of us, we are a shade over 600 pounds." It wasn't. My empty is 3000, and my plane is heavy, with old radios, radar, deice boots. My max to is 4500. That's a lot of room for people and fuel. My tanks hold 132, with 128 useable. I'll scan a w&B for you tomorrow.
I burn just about 22 GPH, at about 155 kts. de-ice planes are slower than no-deice. radar pod, which i have, slows some more.

Ah, insurance.


What I did was buy a plane that was owned by a corporation, and bought the corporation. It's only asset was the plane. The insurance the corporation had in effect continued in effect, just the stock holder changed. I did not mee the open pilot requirements, but my instructor did.

When we decided that we were going to buy a skymaster, I went to dallas, to MEI, got my conventional multi engine rating. Then I bought the skymaster, and worked on my instrument. by the time the insurance ran out, I had lots of time in type, my ME and Instrument, so insurance wasn't an issue.

If you go and buy a 337, make sure you get your ME before you do, else no one will touch you. Get a reliable instructor, and get your Instrument in the plane you will, at that point, own.

I heartily recommend taking a week, and getting the ME at an accelerated school. In my personal opinion, it is the best way to do it. You are focused, the school is focused, you get it done. None of the stuff of showing up, oh the plane is broke. The school I went to had 4 travelare's, and they were all the same. The instructors all taught from the same book, the same way. It is uniform, you get your rating, and you are out the door and on your way.

[OSCARDEUCE]

"If you go and buy a 337, make sure you get your ME before you do, else no one will touch you. Get a reliable instructor, and get your Instrument in the plane you will, at that point, own."

I had not problem when I bought my O2-A. I had 150 hour SEL. I found an instructor. For insurance I needed my MEL (CLT limitation) and 40 hours instruction then 10 hours solo before carrying passengers. Insurance is about $3500 a year I now have over 200 hours in the O2.

[Kevin B]

We purchased our P-337G about a year ago. My one partner was 450 tt and 35 hours retact and 25 hrs multi.
Insuance was:

School $2000.00
50 hours dual
School $2000.00
10 hrs solo
Our insuance payment the 1st year was $6800.00