Northstar Loran repair/replacement/KLN90B

[kevin]

It was a tough trip for avionics (very hot)(yes I checked the fan). My Northstar M1 Loran has been becoming a bit ditzy for the last five or six flight hours, and on this trip it totally threw in the towel, being unable to find its location or maintain a nav lock.

So, being as I am uninterested in paying 6K+ to replace it with a panel mount GPS (I already have a Garmin 295), I want to get it repaired. Has anybody out there done that recently? Any comments or suggestions?

Thanks,

Kevin

[skymstr02]

Kevin, when my M1 started that nonsense, I ended up buying a used unit from Tropic Aero for $300, and it came with an updated database also for the same price. I originally bought my unit from Tropic Aero.

Its a viable option.

Dave
O-2A
"Viet Cong Hunting Club"

[Bob Cook]

Whats Loran? Is that not like ADF? <G>

Go get a used KLN90B on ebay for less than 1200 dollars. It works great. Besides it is certifiable for approaches. Nice combo with the 295. Price is right!

Just a suggestion.

Bob

[kevin]

Hmmm... KLN90B. Interesting idea. I think it is taller than the M1, not sure how I would get it into the panel, but have to look into it....

Kevin

Bob:

What's required for the installation of the KLN90B? Right now I'm using the antiquated KNS80 RNAV, but hey, it keeps me legal for "direct".

Keven
________
Rehab forums

[WebMaster]

I when our STS loran packed it in, I looked at the used IFR gps's on ebay, and the thing that is missed is that for IFR certifcation, you are looking at 40 hours shop time. It makes the cheap GPS expensive. I was able to find an exact replacement loran on EBAY for $60. take the old out, the new in, and you're down the pike. It was cheaper than repairing, and since we were putting in the exact same make model, not a lot of paper work, no figuring out interfaces, etc.

[kevin]

Thank you all for your replies.

My shop has a Northstar M2 that they just removed from an Aero Commander, so we are going to try swapping that in place of the M1 to see if the problems go away (just in case it is the airplane, not the box). (They are not going to install the GPS portion of the M2.)

If the M2 works, I will likely send in the M1 to be repaired, as it has been very reliable, and Northstar will put in a new receiver board for $150. If I buy another unit, who knows what intermittants I may be buying.

It may be throwing good money after bad, I dunno. I really don't want to spend another 3 - 4K on the KLN90B and install right now...although I think the KLN90B might be just what I am looking for, since I am not enthusiastic about 10K for an installed G430, and I get all the moving map I want from the G295... The KLN90B would fit in the same panel space as the Northstar too.

I need to be wealthy, it would make these decisions easier.

Kevin

[Jerry De Santis]

I came across a Northstar M1 for a $100.00. I bought it just for a spare and in fact, keep it in the aircraft just in case I may need it on a trip. Suggest you check different shops that sell GPS etc. They always have second hand lorans that they replaced. I am sure you can get a complete set for about $100.00.
Good hunting.
Jerry

[Bob Cook]

Kevin

Why not just fix up the loran and use the 295 . I think the 295 does just about everything the 430 does! I have used the 295 when I had an hsi failure and it saved my "". you need an MDS switcher, rewiring and certificiation for the 90B to be approach certified which brings the total to 3k and engineering costs to put the antenna in a pressurized vessel.... forgot about that one! Instead of the 430 or 530 I opted for the Echoflight which I now rely on heavily for wx. Saved about 15k in the process. Besides you need to keep the database current and that's another 400/yr. The kns80 still works, I use it now and again so I don't forget how to use it <G>.

I'd wait for a year or so as there gps mapping is still at it's infancy.

Bob

[kevin]

As long as I can keep the M1 functional, I plan to do just what you suggest. If it becomes uneconomical to repair or replace it with used, then I may think about your KLN90 suggestion, because I like 3-4K better than 10 - 11K (I forgot about the pressurized antennae costs). I want to have two area navigators in the plane, (3 actually counting my IFR approved KNS80, my Loran is IFR enroute approved as well) as I fly direct almost everywhere, VFR and IFR (it's nice to live in the west). If I am going to replace the M1, something with GPS approach capability would be nice, and used KLN90s are low priced, I guess because of small map and usability. I care not about the map, and I'm a software engineer, so it will probably seem completely intuitive to me .

I did learn a lesson my previous handheld GPS. I had (still have) a Trimble Flightmate, one of the original aviation GPS handhelds. It developed a display problem, so I spent $300 bucks to repair it, thinking I was saving money over the $1500 for a 295. Three months later, it would not navigate any more, and estimated repair costs were $500. Time to quit, but it sure felt like that $300 was wasted... I don't want to repeat that experience with Northstar, as much as I like their unit.

Kevin

[SkyKing]

Kevin, et al...

For 'further-down-the-road', wonder if you've considered the color version of either the 5000 or 7000 Argus moving map displays? You could then couple to your M1 Loran and also double-time with ADF display if you wanted and with the 295 you'd be pretty well set. I also understand the Argus has Stormscope overlay capability and RMI.

We have the Apollo 618TCA Loran with V-Nav and it has been a very reliable piece of gear, but have been thinking about swapping out for a KLN-88 and then piggyback it with a KLN90B, switchable to the Argus color display. (Best of both worlds? -- Loran and GPS!) Only thing is the KLN-88 seems to need lots of cooling air... wonder if it's the same with the KLN90B?

Has anyone installed the newer Argus color units, either the 5000 or 7000 CE? Without redoing the entire panel and keeping our existing equipment (KNS80, KY196A, KX155), the Argus seems a viable economic option with the addition of the KLN88 and KLN90B. The GPS antenna is already mounted and wired up top side, and we've already got the KLN88 with rack, so all we need to find now is a KLN90B and a surplus Argus.

Like Bob says, GPS mapping is in its infancy and as more and more people covert to the newer glass, there'll be all sorts of great deals for those of us on the 'Champaigne of Beer' budgets!

SkyKing

[kevin]

I looked at the Argus when I was trying to figure out how to shoehorn a WX-950 Stormscope into my panel. Unlike most people, I really don't care about moving maps, and nowdays, when I need that, I look at my 295. All I want from whatever replaces the M1 is IFR approved GPS nav, including approaches. And I don't want to have ANOTHER device that I have to update in addition to the GPS, (as you do with the Argus). Again, I think I am in the minority, most folks seem to really like moving maps.

BTW, another benefit I just discovered to the KLN90B is that I can update the database from my laptop, without buying a card writer from Jeppessen, like I do my 295. Nice...

Kevin

[Bob Cook]

Kevin

I have seen a number of 90B's on EBAY. It is rock solid and I use it for approaches. I update with the laptop monthly. Takes about 3.5 mbs of data. It is hooked up the the shadin as well as the Encoding altimeter. I use the 90B as a primary Altitude alerter. Also have the EI superclock/ alt alerter to a second encoder as backup.
I have never had a raim alarm ever ! With the 90B and a 295 I really saw no reason to go for Garmin 430 or 530.
I find it simple to use, not overly intuitive, but definately ROCK SOLID. So I have decided to keep the 90B until I can find a real good reason to get lazy........ such as going to the kln94.... It's a good deal considering they were going for 7k last year.

i have the simulator if you want to play with it.

Sounds like u will need to leave your CC's at home if your going to OSH <G>. Scary..............

Bob

[GMAs]

To put the 90 in requires just a 337 form... provided you are not going to do IFR with it... nor would I want to use it for a approch... I had some real interesting things happen when I used the one in the kingair... and the nav management stuff is right behind it... even the faa doesn't like it too much... as they say they won't approve it till its been in service for a while... sort of a trial by fire ting... so for nav its great enroute... but, for the rest... I use the needles... I am old fash I guess..... but, your original installation has one in it... Loran... and your replacing it with a new GPs... which is only weight and power change... kinda thing... and some FAA offices don't even want to see a 337 form because you are changing it with ...kind... and the weight and power requirements are negiable...

and bob what is wrong with ADF... one of the finest things to come along since radar.... it will do so much more that they don't tell you about... besides listen to the ball game... news and local weather... smile... GMAs...

[kevin]

Heck, there was not just one but TWO NDBs on the approach I did into Castlegar last weekend. Bob being Canadian, I *know* he knows what NDBs are, probably uses them so much he is trying to forget...

My airplane lived in Canada for a while before I bought it, which is how, I suspect, it came to have a two needle RMI.

Nowdays, I use the ADF for...ahem...primary navigation during an ADF approach, and the Garmin 295 purely for...ahem...situational awareness.

'Course in the Bahamas where Bob lives, they navigate purely by the smell of rum drinks on warm breezes. And use the 295 for situational awareness.

When I made my first out of sight of land overwater flight (to Grand Cayman) I had both VORS, the ADF, the GPS and the Loran all pointing at Georgetown, as well as four Mk1 eyeballs (all serviceable but worn). Now THAT'S situational awareness.

Kevin