N2334S Gear up landing in Dothan, AL

kdiel11 · #1 03-24-12, 10:40 PM

Just wanted to let you guys know that my MEI friend and I had to perform a gear up landing at DHN this afternoon. We could never get the landing gear to extend. It would only open up the gear door and let the gear flop out. When we tried pumping them down, we met with loads of resistance on the handle. My take on it was that one of the hydroelectrical valves for the power pack would not open to energize the lander gear hydraulic actuators. We tried for over an hour to get it to work. Don't know how many gyrations of master switch and landing gear handle combination we did trying to get it to come out. At one point my friend said he felt the gear even make contact with the forward structure when he did a positive g maneuver but they failed to latch (if they can even do that without hydraulic or emergency power). So we traveled over to DHN did a couple of flybys to get everything straight on where they wanted us to land and then came in on the back engine and put it down at around 55 mph. We might have been a bit vertical at the end, slid for about 200 feet on the sod next to the runway without further incident (if that wasn't enough). My friend pulled the rear engine off line just before impact but it still bent the last 6 inches of both blades on back. So that engine will still have to be torn down and a sudden stoppage inspection completed on it. Frankly, I don't know if I will return it to flying status. I have no problems going back out to fly, just don't know how much it is going to cost. If you dont recall, I fly without insurance on the plane. Please......no I told you so's right now! So I may end up just parting her out. More to follow on that point. Can anyone give anyother advice on what we could have done while airborne? KD

hharney · #2 03-24-12, 11:15 PM

All I can think of right is that I am really sorry to hear of this tragedy. You must be just totally exhausted mentally and physically going through this. It is good to see no concerns of injury to either of you. It is a very strong airframe and it sounds like it kept you safe. Take a deep breath and give yourself some time to absorb all that happened so that hopefully you can determine what happened. Hang in there.

kdiel11 · #3 03-25-12, 12:45 AM

Thanks for the well-wishes. Hopefully, it won't be too expensive to repair. The biggest thing is are they going to consider the engine as sudden stoppage which I think they will even though we had shut it down prior to contact to the ground. The damage to the prop, to me, only proves it was just spinning down. However, I imagine they still will want it tore down. What a shame....that was my under 500 hour out of factory reman engine too. Kd

Skymaster337B · #4 03-25-12, 01:57 AM

I think some one else posted on this site that they banged (kicked) the hyd pack to make the shuttle solenoid un-stick. Additionally, I hear a cargo pod will keep the air frame off the ground while gear up.

perhaps negative g's would have worked to lock the mains down...but who knows.

Ernie Martin · #5 03-25-12, 09:53 AM

KD, if you get this before noon today (Sunday) give me a call at 305-562-0565. After 2PM and for the next 2 weeks call me in the Bahamas at 242-367-8326.

Ernie Martin

kdiel11 · #6 03-25-12, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skymaster337B

I think some one else posted on this site that they banged (kicked) the hyd pack to make the shuttle selinoid un-stick. Additionally, I hear a cargo pod will keep the air frame off the ground while gear up.

perhaps negative g's would have worked to lock the mains down...but who knows.

That would have been something to try. I know it is on the pilot's side somewhere, but not exactly sure where. It does sound as though that was our problem. We did perform dive pull-outs (positive g's trying to get them to lock) and my friend thinks he heard them hit the forward stop but they never locked. Another thing might have been to see if it released after we shut down the forward engine. KD

#7 03-25-12, 11:57 AM

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate mishap and glad to hear you are ok.

In discussion with Tom Carr a couple years ago regarding landing gear failing to come down, he had said if this happens to shut the master switch off for 5 or maybe 10 minutes. The reason you need to do this is to let the solenoid in the power pack cool down.

If it does turn out to be a faulty solenoid, it can be changed in situ. I had to change mine. They are fairly expensive but after some research I found alternate part numbers which brings the price down considerably.

Skymaster337B · #8 03-25-12, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdiel11

That would have been something to try. I know it is on the pilot's side somewhere, but not exactly sure where. It does sound as though that was our problem. We did perform dive pull-outs (positive g's trying to get them to lock) and my friend thinks he heard them hit the forward stop but they never locked. Another thing might have been to see if it released after we shut down the forward engine. KD

I think positive g's work for the nose gear, but negative g's might work for the mains. Reason, nose gear must come down and aft to lock, while the mains must go forward and down to lock. That's why I think positive g's will push the main gear aft towards the retract position..but negative g's might push the mains forward to the down and locked position.

kdiel11 · #9 03-26-12, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skymaster337B

I think positive g's work for the nose gear, but negative g's might work for the mains. Reason, nose gear must come down and aft to lock, while the mains must go forward and down to lock. That's why I think positive g's will push the main gear aft towards the retract position..but negative g's might push the mains forward to the down and locked position.

We also did the negative g's as well, but the only thing the gear did was go back up into the wheel well.

Skymaster337B · #10 03-26-12, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdiel11

We also did the negative g's as well, but the only thing the gear did was go back up into the wheel well.

Thanks for the clarification. That is good info to know.

kdiel11 · #11 03-26-12, 10:35 PM

I was just looking at the pictures I got from the Airfield Safety Ofc. It appears as if there is a definite "wrinkle" in the fuselage skin in the left rear lower sheet metal (about the same place as where the cargo door is on the other side). I've talked with a couple of other folks about this and they are in agreement with me that it is likely secondary to fuselage warpage at that point just forward of the main bulkhead for the rear engine. We were vertical for the last couple of feet. It was enough force for the nose piece of my sunglasses to scrape the skin off of my nose. I'm thinking it may have been enough to cause the rear engine to flex downward, transmit that energy to the bulkhead and then to the fuselage outer skin. If my assumptions are correct, it probably condemns the airframe without getting major work on the back of the plane. Thoughts? KD

kdiel11 · #12 03-26-12, 10:41 PM

Oh! One other thing....... I hope your wife won't do this to you, what mine did to me. I called her to come and pick us up at the firehouse. So we are waiting there with several other firemen, policemen and a lady front he local FBO when my wife shows up and tosses me a clean pair of underwear and says, "I thought you might need these." Talk about kicking a guy on the ground! My daughter thinks I now am the real version of "Mayhem" on the commercials. Just because I have rolled 3 lawnmowers on steep hills, got a boat stuck on a piling and then ran it out of gas a couple of miles from our dock and then burned one to the waterline, does not make me "Mayhem" does it? KD

jchronic · #13 03-27-12, 08:54 PM

Sounds to me like after all that you should have all the bad ju-ju out of your system and are good to go!

Nice work handling the situation. Been there twice; once in a Navy fighter and once in an F-27.

Joe

kdiel11 · #14 03-27-12, 11:42 PM

No.....I think I still have a lot more bad ju-ju to go. We got the plane off the sod today. Still waiting for the FAA to come and look ay it before we can go to work on it. Will let you all know more as soon as I know more. KD

sns3guppy · #15 04-06-12, 12:12 PM

Shutting off your electrical for ten or fifteen minutes then turning it on and attempting to cycle the gear is something that should always be tried.

If you have a cutter and can cut the bottom of your pedestle away to get to the hydro powerpack, you can drop the gear manually by backing off the shuttle valve and relieving the pressure. It takes a wrench and you have to know the system, but it does work.