Soft & Short Field Takeoffs & Landings

My POH does not have procedures for soft and short field takeoffs and landings. Don't know why! At least not the POH that came with the plane OR the updated POH I bought from Essco. Mine is a 66 337A.

How do you other folks who fly the normally aspirated older versions handle these takeoffs and landings? Or . . . is it in your POH that you can forward to me, i.e., speeds, flaps, etc.

Would love to know, am going to be flying into and out of a 3500' grass strip about once a week.

Thanks,

Keven
________
LAMBORGHINI ISLERO HISTORY

[OSCARDEUCE]

Keven,
In my O2-A I use 80 kt on final for short fields. This allows me to put it down in around 1000 ft or so. The .O is 75-80 kts. Even the military dash 1 was a lottle vague, nd these guys were always flying off short unimproved filds with over gross aircraft. I use the first notch of flap on T.O. and full flap on landing. I have contacted many former O2 pilots from Nam, and that is the procedure they used. How that compares to a civvie model I'm not sur, but I would assume it to be close.
Tom

[Mitch Taylor]

Actually, in the dash 1, you need to go to the tables. I don't have mine with me, but there is a rotation and liftoff speed for several different weights. I believe rotation at 4300 gross is at about 65 KIAS, with liftoff in the low 70s.

[hharney]

FROM POH 1968 SUPER SKYMASTER

TAKE – OFF
MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE TAKE-OFF
1) WING FLAPS – “1/3” DOWN
2) BRAKES – APPLY
3) POWER – FULL THROTTLE AND 2800 RPM
4) MIXTURES – LEAN FOR FIELD ELEVATION PER FUEL FLOW INDICATOR PLACARD
5) BRAKES – RELEASE
6) ELEVATOR CONTROL – MAINTAIN SLIGHTLY TAIL-LOW ATTITUDE
7) CLIMB SPEED – 86 MPH (WITH OBSTACLES AHEAD)
8) LANDING GEAR AND WING FLAPS – RETRACT (AFTER OBSTACLES ARE CLEARED)

NOTE: WHEN TAKING OFF FROM A GRAVEL OR CINDER FIELD, THE POSSIBILITY OF GRAVEL DAMAGING THE REAR PROPELLER FROM THE FRONT PROPELLER SLIPSTREAM CAN BE REDUCED CONSIDERABLY BY USING 1/3 FLAPS, AND USING ONLY THE REAR ENGINE FOR INITIAL ACCELERATION. WHEN DOING THIS, THE NOSE GEAR SHOULD BE RAISED CLEAR OF THE GROUND AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, FOLLOWED BY FULL THROTTLE APPLICATION ON THE FRONT ENGINE.

FOR SHORT FIELD LANDINGS, MAKE A POWER APPROACH AT 90 MPH WITH FULL FLAPS. AFTER ALL APPROACH OBSTACLES ARE CLEARED, PROGRESSIVELY REDUCE POWER. MAINTAIN 90 MPH APPROACH SPEED BY LOWERING THE NOSE OF THE AIRPLANE. TOUCHDOWN SHOULD BE MADE WITH THROTTLES CLOSED AND ON THE MAIN WHEELS FIRST. IMMEDIATELY AFTER TOUCHDOWN, LOWER THE NOSE GEAR AND APPLY HEAVY BRAKING AS REQUIRED. FOR MAXIMUM BRAKE EFFECTIVENESS AFTER ALL THREE WHEELS ARE ON THE GROUND, RETRACT THE FLAPS, HOLD FULL NOSE UP ELEVATOR AND APPLY MAXIMUM POSSIBLE BRAKE PRESSURE WITHOUT SLIDING THE TIRES.

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS IN THE POH. HERE’S MY TWO CENTS.
MY AIRCRAFT IS EQUIPED WITH A STOL SYSTEM AND I WILL USE UPTO ½ FLAPS ON MAX PERFORMANCE TAKE-OFF. I NORMALLY ROTATE AT AROUND 75 MPH, RETRACT THE GEAR, FLATTEN THE CLIMB, DROP TO 1/3 FLAPS, AND CONTINUE TO ACCELERATE TO 110 MPH AND THEN LOOSE THE REST OF THE FLAPS.

IN THE MAX PERFORMANCE T/O DATA, IT REFERS TO “LEAN TO FIELD ELEVATION”. IN THE FLAT COUNTRY (MID-WEST) THIS IS NO BIG DEAL BUT WHERE I LEARN TO FLY IF YOU DO NOT LEAN THE FUEL YOU MAY NOT MAKE IT OFF THE RUNWAY. I HAVE BEEN AT 8,000 FT ON THICK, ‘ROUGH SURFACE’ AND YOU PULL THE MITURES BACK TO ACHIEVE THE MAX PERFORMANCE. IF I REMEMBER AT 8,000 FT AND DENSITY ALTITUDE AROUND 10,000 FT AT TIMES I WOULD LEAN BACK TO 12 -13 GALS PER HOUR FOR TAKE OFF. REALLY IMPORTANT!

WITH THE PERFORMANCE OF THE SKYMASTER IF YOU HAVE TO APPLY MAXIMUM POSSIBLE BRAKES THEN THE STRIP IS TOO SHORT OR YOUR APPROACH WAS NOT CORRECT. I HAVE BEEN IN AND OUT OF 1400 FT FIELDS AT 4,000 FT ALTITUDE WITH SOME DENSITY FACTORS BUT NORMALLY LIGHT ON WEIGHT. HOPE THIS HELPS.

Thanks for the info folks. Just what I was looking for. I did forget to mention that there are 50-70' trees on all 4 sides of the strip, but with the length, I don't anticipate any problems.

I just got back from 73J (Beaufort, SC, a 3400' paved strip) and the FBO told me that a week or two ago a 337 landed short of the runway and had a prop strike. Took the prop off, had an A&P look at it, put it back on, and flew it out the next day. Now there's some info that won't make it into the FAA reports.

Keven
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Lovely Wendie99

[WebMaster]

Be careful of trees around the runway. I went into 63B, in Maine, and it says it's 2900 ft long, paved, trees both ends. What I didn't see in the description was TALL trees both sides, and close to the runway. With wind out of the SW, wind swirled around the trees. There was a clearing, and the wind funneled through there. I was abt 10 AGL when I got to the clearing. Closest I ever came to buying it.

Once coming into 4N0, lots of wind, and at the treeline there was significant wind shear.

Tall trees around a runway, with lots of wind, can cause you real problems.

[Jerry De Santis]

I follow the same procedure as herb stated above. In fact written the same way in my POH. One thing that was not noted but is in my POH, on soft field landing ADD 50 percent to ground roll. Tha's a lot guys.

Two weeks ago I landed at Triple-H airport about 7 mile north of AZO. North/South runway with 10 knot 80 degree cross-wind from the west. Had the plane stopped in 3/4 down the runway. ( thats right Herb---Me on grass).

By the way, Triple-H has a flyin twice a year and the best I ever gone to. So if you in the area when they have one, drop in.
Jerry

[Ernie Martin]

Jerry's addition of 50% to ground roll is sometimes not enough.

When this city boy decided he wanted to do some mountain flying, he took his then-1969 337D from Miami, across the Rockies, to my final destination of Garden Valley, Idaho (where my son is a heliattack forest fireman). Grass, 3850 foot runway, 3200 feet altitude. Surrounded by taller peaks, so the glide is steep.

I had landed in Boise the night before and was anxious to get there, so I was approaching the field at about 9 AM. Didn't think of dew on the grass. Well, it took all of those 3850 feet to stop the aircraft. Bottom line: consider all the factors, not just whether the runway is paved.

Ernie

[hharney]

HEY ERNIE
RIGHT IN MY OLD BACK YARD

GARDEN VALLEY U88
ELEVATION 3177
LENGTH AND WIDTH 3850 X 125 TURF
RUNWAY 10 - 28
RELITIVE HAZARD INDEX (0-50) 7

GARDEN VALLEY IS A VERY EASY STRIP FOR THE 337. THE RUNWAY SURFACE IS GRAVEL AND TURF (ROUGH SURFACE). THE AREA SURROUNDING THE AIRPORT IS MOUNTAINOUS BUT THE WIDTH OF THE VALLEY MAKES FOR SAFE APPROACHES.

WHAT MAKES THE TRIP GREAT, BRING YOUR FLY ROD AND THE TENT AND MAKE A CAMP. THERE IS A NATURAL HOT SPRINGS AND VERY NICE MANICURED AIRPLANE CAMPSITES OVERLOOKING THE RIVER, AND ACCESS TO A SMALL MOUNTAIN COMMUNITY.

IT'S A MUST DO. READY TO GO?

I WILL ATTACH A NICE PHOTO AFTER I FIND IT AND SCAN IT IN.

[Ernie Martin]

HHarney:

Had a great time in Garden Valley. Was there a week, flew over the Salmon river, the works.

Incidentally, for those of you who like this sort of adventure, did I tell you that my wife (who I had easily fooled into thinking I was flying commercial, cause who's nuts enough to fly across the whole country in a 337) found out about my ruse while I was there? Needless to say I was taken directly to the woodshed upon my return.

Only one person, who had been sworn to secrecy, knew about my trip. So what happened? Turns out that person was my CFI, with whom I had consulted during the 3 months that I prepared for mountain flying (along with web pages, books, videos, etc). When I left I hadn't talked to him in about a month. So he calls my house while I'm gone on another subject (I designed and maintained his CFI web page), my wife tells him I've gone to Idaho, and he, forgetting the secret, says to her "don't worry, he's a good pilot, has the techniques for mountain flying down pat...". All hell broke loose. Oh, well.

Ernie