Buying and Exporting a Skymaster

[johnnyfalcon]

G'day folks, from Down Under

I'm looking for a P337 to use as personal business transport in New Zealand. I've been watching the market for about a year and done considerable research. Before committing to this venture I'd like to seek your collective observations.

I've been told that 'you don't take the wings off a Skymaster' for export. Could you fly one out here? I know the O-2s were all flown to Vietnam. In NZ Cessna's SIDs are mandatory. It seems to me that this would require a significant amount of disassembly anyhow and may warrant taking the wings off to make the inspection easier. Have many/any Skymaster owners put their aircraft through the SID program? Are there any for sale? I have a maintenance shop here that is just finishing one now and has offered their services. Or it may be easier to have it done in the US first as there are more Skymaster savvy outfits there.

If anyone knows of any well-maintained airframes available for sale, I'd be interested in adding them to my shortlist. Also, if you have any further advice, warnings, or observations, I'd appreciate any assistance. I hope to visit the US in the next month or so with a view to making a decision.

Cheers and beers

Johnny

[Ernie Martin]

Don Nieser at Commodore (405-503-4686 or 722-4079, nieser.02.337parts@juno.com) has done the SIDs, and shipped the diassembled aircraft to Australia or NZ. He may have an aircraft for sale, or look online for one. Most (all?) 337s in private use have NOT had the SIDs done because it's not mandatory.

Ernie

[johnnyfalcon]

Thanks for the pronto reply and the information :-)

[hharney]

Contact Clamback & Hennessy in Sydney, AU
They will ferry a Skymaster for you from the USA to your location

Check for the country code but number is 97921022 ask for Aminta

Are there specifics in the P model you are looking for? Year, Model, Equip, Mods ???

[johnnyfalcon]

Hi Herb,

Thanks for your input. Do you consider ferrying to NZ first then doing the SIDs a better option?

I'm considering all years of P models. I don't know that there are any significant differences. I considered all turbo models of 337 initially but decided upon pressurized. It needs to be IFR-ready. Intercooled is desirable? I'd prefer engines with good times remaining rather than the inconvenience of overhauling. I have wondered about the significance of climate control in the cabin. How do the pilots of the non-airconditioned airframes manage on hot days?

All observations welcome.

[johnnyfalcon]

Thanks Frank. I thought there was another relatively minor change after the 1973 model too. But, after all the reading I've been doing, I can't remember what it was...

123 gallons equals about 4.5 hours? NZ isn't very big... (in case you've not heard of it!)

[SkyMac]

Hi Johnny

If I could suggest some additional thought around the cost of the ferry, including the installation of the additional ferry tanks, associated plumbing, ferry pilot and fuel etc Vs dissasembly and shipping via a 40ft container.

I did this 3 years ago and my decision was to dissasemble and ship down under. Looking at the SID's for the 337G (Herb was a great help) my view was that the cost and potential for damage to the aircraft is significant, why spend the money to fly it out only then to pull it appart to do the SID's. My suggestion would be to pull it appart in the US and then do the SID's in NZ and put it back together at home base, this way you can also control the reassembly.

Give you some figures to ponder on.

*Feb 2010 Dissasembly and packing cost cost $4800 (3 guys, 2 days and 16hrs travel time for each, no one local with the experience on a 337)
*Feb 2010 Shipping 40ft container (Direct to LA to Melbourne) $5800

Now I can't give you the assembly cost as I have not made it that far yet, allthough we are getting close, but we are estimating approx $16000 to completed the assembly and provide the CASA CoA and back to IFR.

As the aircraft is appart I will carry out the eddy current and visual inspection of all specified components, this has been quoted as $800 to have this done. So again if the aircraft is appart it is easier and less costly.

As mentioned these are just what I did based on my circumstances and the project I took on.

Almost 800hrs of labour, hundreds of new nuts, bolts and washers, new hydraulic lines, new paint, complete new interior, lost count of the new stainless screws and we are just about to remove all hydraulic actuators for a refurb, not to mention brakes, bearings, all cables and even down to the aileron, rudder and elevator bearings - yes I am still married!

What can I say, you either love them (337's) or you don't.

There are plenty of bargins out there, but be sure in what your getting as the boys are right, hidden cost's will get you every time, maintanence and calander time on componenets are crucial. Unless your doing what I am and that is treat everything as expired and in need of replacing or overhaul (engines and props excluded) it can be a costly excercise.

Anyway enough of the waffle, good luck with finding the right bird for you and I am sure what ever the choice in ferry or shipping it will be the right one for you.

Dave

[Ernie Martin]

Dave's suggestion seems sensible and may indeed be the best option. I would, however, explore having the disassembly, SIDs, upgradings (hydraulic lines, interior, new fasteners, bearings, cables, refurb hydraulic actuators and brakes, etc.) and packing done by Don Nieser at Commodore. He's done it before for 337s going to Australia or NZ, knows 337s better than anyone, and many of these upgradings might be much cheaper done in the U.S. It's worth comparing the two options.

Ernie

[hharney]

I like Dave's suggestions and Ernie is correct there may be some items better sourced here in the USA. I agree working with someone that has done this before takes all the questions out of the picture. Don's knowledge is worth a lot in these kind of arrangements.

Now as far as finding the right airframe I think you have to come over and kick the tires yourself. Start by listing the planes that meet your criteria and then by process of elimination select the best of the best. Then come over and make your choice.

If any of us on this message board can help that process of elimination please feel free to call on us. I say that for all the owners on this board as we cover the country and can visit a plane for you in our area. There are lots of choices but only one that meets your personal needs. Let me know where I can help.

Check all the sources; controller, ASO, Trade a plane, Barnstormers, Skymaster Center, Commodore Aero, and there are some not listed but for sale. Those not listed may be referrals from us on the board.

Good luck and Cheers

[johnnyfalcon]

Thanks Amigos,

Great observations, and good to hear from a fellow Australasian who's 'done it all before'. I'm not frightened by having to do what is necessary to get the bird up to scratch, but I don't plan on the 'whole 9 yards' approach either. There's a time factor in this for me too. The right aeroplane needs to be close to ready-for-duty as possible.

This venture also has a sentimental element. As Dave eloquently put it: "You either love them or you don't". I see this as preserving the future of a great aircraft as well as meeting my business needs.

Your suggestions corroborate the efforts I've put in already and I value your advice and support too, watch out, you just might get a call from me...

Cheers

Johnny

[SkyMac]

Hi Johhny

I can assure you those involved in this forum will be a great asset to you when it comes to anything about buying, owning & operating a Skymaster.

I agree the whole 9 yards that I am doing (I deliberately sourced a project to do just this) is not for everyone and purchasing the right bird is crucial so you don't end up in that situation.

One more thing as a heads up, during my search I came across many who were prepared to dissasemble and ship the aircraft, but they kept referring to the need to ensure it had a full annual including W&B recheck and Pitot tube certification etc (going on memory guys) so that an export certificate could be provided before it was pulled apart, I heard this more than a dozen times.

Infact when I delved into the situation with CASA and the FAA, all that is required is a current manufactures CoA in the aircraft and transfer documentation from the seller as you will need to de-register the aircraft with the FAA. I did this a week after the plane arrived in Aus.

Don't fall into the trap of needing an export certificate, I am sure NZ obtains a lot of guidance from CASA for their regulations.

I have all my purchase, export, shipping and assocaited information so if I can be of any further assistance let me know.


Dave

Ps: Guys almost finished the tail, just need to replace the pins in the elevator arms, then re-assemble the rear, aim is for this weekend - any guidance on removing the pins?

[johnnyfalcon]

Cheers Dave, that's really helpful information. That wee pic gives a glimpse of what promises to be a good looking ship! Well done!