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  #16  
Unread 12-13-08, 12:21 PM
Diamond Service Diamond Service is offline
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Flight of SE-MBT

Fellow aviators.
I am in a Hotel in Ottawa waiting for my flight to Europe. Flight of SE-MBT started in New Philadelphia on the 6 of December. We had been waiting several days for a waiver from TSA allowing us to start our flight.Just in time we got the waiver and we started a 3 hrs 20 min flight to KPYM. This was the first flight with new avionics so a lot of time was spend on trying all the new functions of the recently installed equipment. The flight went well with only a few snags on all the new electronics.

I will continue my story later because my internet time is running out.

Rgds Troels.
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  #17  
Unread 12-16-08, 08:08 AM
Diamond Service Diamond Service is offline
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Last Flight of SE-MBT

I am now at home and that sure feels good.

On Saturday the 6 we flew from KPYM via KBGR to CYQB. Both these legs were uneventful and without problems. We parked the aircraft overnight in Quebec City with the fuselage/window cover on and the electrical engine heaters hooked up. The next morning it was snowing and I cleared the aircraft from snow when Oliver submitted the flightplans for our two leg flight to CYFB. The aircraft started instantly and all systems were operating. We flew for 2 hrs and 30 min at 11000 feet before landing in CYWK. Refueled 172 liters and checked the aircraft for next leg. We climbed to 11000 on this last flight of SE-MBT. The weather improved and we soon enjoyed the most beautyful sunset. About 3 hrs and 40 min into the flight we went from heaven to hell. We first noticed a decrease in oil temp. on the forward.Soon followed by low oil pressure. I moved the prop lever to test the response of the propeller system. While doing that the engine failed with a loud metallic scream and smoke entered the cockpit through the heating system. Mayday call transmitted on 121.5 and a KLM aircraft responded. Decend to single engine cruising altitude initiated. The rear engine oil temp and pressure decreased just like the forward and the engine failed with a loud bang. Back on 121.5 to tell the KLM that we were now gliding all engines out. Position report transmitted as well.
I will be back soon with the rest of the story.

Troels.
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  #18  
Unread 12-16-08, 08:38 AM
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WebMaster WebMaster is offline
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WOW

We are all glad you are safe, but that had to be the scariest moment in life.
Whay year was/is SE-MBT??
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  #19  
Unread 12-16-08, 09:13 AM
Diamond Service Diamond Service is offline
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Hi Larry.
It was a 1966 model. I will be back with the rest of the story soon. I also feel that I have a good idea about what went wrong and I feel this forum is full of very experienced people to discuss my theory with.

Troels.
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  #20  
Unread 12-16-08, 10:53 AM
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Ernie Martin Ernie Martin is offline
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Any work done on both engines recently? Both engines overhauled at the same time, by the same shop?

Ernie
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  #21  
Unread 12-16-08, 01:09 PM
Diamond Service Diamond Service is offline
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Hello Ernie.
The forward engine was factory new in 2000 and the rear overhauled in 1996.
FWD 462 TSN
REAR 900 TSO

I had the props,governors and all mags overhauled at the same time the avionics was done.

Troels.
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  #22  
Unread 12-16-08, 02:06 PM
Diamond Service Diamond Service is offline
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Last Flight of SE-MBT

It was some busy minutes during the glide towards the cold below. Survival suit completely prepared and life vest put on and ready. Oliver sitting with life raft and some other equipment in his lap. I attempted to restart engines but of course without success. I drained the batttery trying to start engines so instrument lights were very weak. At about 3000 feet we decided to put the plane on the water just beside the ice. It was fairly easy to see the edge of the ice in the moonlight. Close to the water I selected full flaps and we hit the water with apprx 70 MPH. The nose went under and big chunks of ice crushed both windshields and the left side window. I put my right hand on the glareshield to brace myself. The aircraft stopped very rapidly and the water was up to our chest. Within seconds the cabin was completely under water. Oliver had the door open prior to impact but was now struggling to get it open. I got out through the left side window.Once out I pulled the inflate handle on my life vest and I was on the surface instantly. The left wingtip was resting on the ice and I used the wing to push myself up onto the ice. I looked back and saw Oliver in the water trying to get up on the wing. I was extremely worryed that the ice would carry our weight because it was moving and flexing a lot. Oliver boarded the ice crawling on the left wing. We talked about if we suffered any injuries and realized that the raft and other equipment was still in the aircraft. I started to crawl on the wing but the aircraft nosed down and went under. I got back on the ice and watched my company logo on the tailfin disappear into the dark water.

Last part of story to follow.

Troels.
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  #23  
Unread 12-16-08, 04:27 PM
gwengler gwengler is offline
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Wow! You guys are amazing! The fact that both of you made it out of there alive and almost unhurt is a total success story! I've been flying my Skylane to Iqaluit four times in the last three years, on two occasions going to/coming from Europe. Another crossing is planned for next year. I will take every word you wrote into serious consideration, as far as survival goes. When my wife who was with me on all of the above flights, heard your interview on CBC Radio, she cried because she knew from first hand experience how it is to fly in the Arctic and what a feel of relief it is to reach dry ground after a long water crossing.
I used to own a Skymaster myself, so our thoughts are now to find out if you are able to share with us your ideas on what went wrong with the engines. I think we all understand that you must have some concerns to share some information that could be used by various agencies; however, we all want to be able to avoid what you went through.
All the best, go flying soon,
Gerd

Last edited by gwengler : 12-16-08 at 05:14 PM.
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  #24  
Unread 12-16-08, 11:43 PM
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Ernie Martin Ernie Martin is offline
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Good post from Gmas, and the arguments for partial refueling with jet fuel sound persuasive. One point I want to make is that in a standard Skymaster, without after-market engine monitoring instruments, the EGT guage isn't very informative. If you look, you will notice that there is no scale; it says 25 deg/div, so you can use it lo lean in cruise, but it doesn't tell you actual EGT. And although you might remember where it typically is, a lower reading can easily be attributed to the lower outside temperature.

Ernie
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  #25  
Unread 12-17-08, 01:30 AM
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Skymaster337B Skymaster337B is offline
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I put diesel fuel in a regular cars once. It only ran for about 5 mins. So I wonder how the airplane was able to fly 3+ hours on Jet A?
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  #26  
Unread 12-17-08, 03:55 AM
Diamond Service Diamond Service is offline
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We refueled in CYQB saturday late afternoon. All four tanks were refueled at that point.I dont recall the quantity but close to 200 liters. On Sunday we flew to CYWK without using fuel from the AUX tanks. The flight was 2 hrs 30 minutes. The MAIN tanks were refueled in wabush with 174 liters. I was up on a latter and checked that the AUX tanks were full. This means that if they refueled the MAINS with jet fuel the mixture in the mains would be about 50/50. About 1 hour 30 minutes into our last flight I selected AUX tanks on both engines simultaneously and flew for 1 hour before selecting back to MAINS. I noticed a slightly lower EGT on this last leg than on the previous legs. All magnetos were overhauled during the time the aircraft was in the shop for avionic work. I never heard any misfiring and the mag checks were always good. Starting performance was also very good both hot and cold engine.

Troels
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  #27  
Unread 12-17-08, 07:20 AM
Paul462 Paul462 is offline
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The classic JetA mis-fueling scenario is: take-off, and then the engine(s) quit at about 200 feet AGL.

Is it possible to run 1.5 hours on one set of tanks, then 1 hour on another set of tanks, and then after all that time have a mis-fueling engine failure?
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  #28  
Unread 12-17-08, 04:46 PM
Diamond Service Diamond Service is offline
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Today the Canadian NTSB send me a copy of my fuel slip from Wabush. It stated that I uplifted 174 liters of 100LL.

I want to finish my story so here it comes.

Standing on the 10 times 5 meter big piece of ice we started our 18 hour struggle to survive.
Time is hard to tell when you dont have a clock but about 1-2 hours later the first aircraft appeared and we got our hopes up that we would be found very soon. We were not able to show ourself in any way since we did not get this equipment with us from the aircraft. Most unfortunately the small lights on our life vests did not work. Several other aircraft and helicopters searched for us during the night and they were very close about three times.
I blamed myself that I did not have any signalling equipment. I think they called of the search when the ceiling got too low. I dont know how to describe it but it is extremely cold and the wind is blowing the cold air right through your bones. We worked hard for a long time to fight the cold and finally the daylight came.Now they will come back and find us we told ourselves,but nothing happened. We saw the shoreline in the distance and decided to jump
from one peice of ice to the other in order to reach dry land. After doing this for about 1 hour a light flashed in the horizon. We stared in that direction for a long time wondering what that couldt have been.We continued our walk on the ice for some time but then the light appeared again,and a little closer. We realized that the light must come from a ship so we turned around on the ice and walked towards the ship waving our life vests over our heads.Suddenly the light was pointed directly at us and after a while we heard the signal horn from the ship. WE ARE BEING RESCUED. The feeling of relief is hard to describe.

I am trying to figure out what happened to my engines and I have a few ideas. I want to share my ideas with you folks in this forum but it is getting late now so I will be back tomorrow.
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  #29  
Unread 12-17-08, 07:09 PM
brianvon brianvon is offline
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Climbing onto the ice from the water.

By the way, I spoke this week with my sailing friend in New England who does a lot of work in freezing salt water, and he said that it is _very_ fortunate that the wing was lying on the ice. Without the wing on the ice, it could have been nearly impossible to get up on the ice from the water even in a survival suit. Congratulations to the pilot at managing to keep the wing on the ice through the ditching process!

Best regards,

Brian
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  #30  
Unread 12-17-08, 07:17 PM
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skymstr02 skymstr02 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul462 View Post
Is it possible to run 1.5 hours on one set of tanks, then 1 hour on another set of tanks, and then after all that time have a mis-fueling engine failure?
No, it is not possible. Jet fuel weighs more than avgas and the jet will settle to the bottom or near the outlet pipe. Jet fuel and avgas will not mix.

This is not a misfueling case.
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