Engine overhaul

[rwenner]

Yesterday I lost the rear engine on takeoff (# 6 cylinder head seperated)
Today I am looking to replace with New, OH, or Remam.
Comments and recommendations requested?

[kevin]

Two comments from me.

1.) Congratulations on handling the emergency well. If you are of a mind, I know a lot of folks on the board will be curious at what altitude and time into the takeoff that the failure occurred, what you found the experience like, how difficult was it to identify the failed engine, etc. But you deserve a "well done!" for being here to write the message.

2.) I suggest you use the search function on the message board with the key word "reman". You will find lots of discussions of the question you asked.

Blue skies,

Kevin

[Mark McConaughy]

Well, congrats to the gentleman who lost the engine. I'm assuming that he retruned to the airport for a landing without incident.

The only thing I will say about overhauls is unless it's a factory new or reman be very sure you know who you are dealing with. Once the overhaul is buttoned up you just have to take on blind faith that whoever did the overhaul did IAW the overhaul manual and he didn't cheat on parts.

Having said that I have a very good friend who is an A&P he doesn't take in outside work but I know him and if he says it good to go, then my kids can ride in the back. (my highest quality standard). be very carfull of a "good deal".

Another issue is no matter who's engine it is there is always the concern about what is aptly termed "infant mortality" personally I always am suspicious with any engine with less than 100 hours (give or take). If you get by that then everything else everyone here has said about maintaining the engine and running it on a regular basis.

One other thing that you might keep in mind, and this is for recip engines in general, most (like over 90%) engine failures occur durring a power change. My rule of thumb in recips has been not to touch anything as far as that first power reduction until i'm in a position were I can afford to loose an engine. Like coming out of a short strip and/or obstructions I don't touch anything till I'm clear of the obstructions and vyse plus about 20. But that's just me.

[WebMaster]

REMAN
You can get it overhauled, and it will be less expensive, maybe, but if you get a reman, it's got a solid warranty.
HOWEVER, check carefully the fine print. I think the engine has to be running , or runable, to get a core charge. Talk to Van Bortel ( www.factoryengines.com ) about the core. If they reject your core, it could cost you $10,000. In that case, you would have spent considerably less money with an overhaul.

On overhaul. There are few shops that will overhaul a Continetal IO-360. If you read the adds in some of the magazines, you will hear all kinds of glowing reports about this company or that company who have made superior cylinders. When I last checked, no one was making them for our IO-360. The lycoming, yes, the Continental, no.

I have 2 reman's in my plane. The rear was this year. I had an oil leak, traced to the shaft coming off the starter drive. Continental replaced the unit, and paid the labor for my mechanic to remove the engine, fix it, and put it back in.

That's my $0.02 worth.

[big al 08]

if the case is bad (out of tolerance) it's all the same. junk is junk and any oh shop that says it's okie dokie is not an oh shop.. cont. or anayone can't make a case kokie dokie if it's bad. the cost of a new case it the same reguarless if it is cont or an oh shop (maybe 5k at the most, however if caught in time and line bored it's under 1k).

[KyleTownsend]

There was an article sometime in the last few months in Aviation Consumer (www.aviationconsumer.com) regarding ratings of overhaul shops.

Personally, I would lean towards an overhaul from a reputable shop if I had first or second run engines and planned to keep the plane for a while.

If I was getting ready to sell, or the engines had already been through overhaul a couple of times, I would go with a factory reman since the market (perhaps mistakenly?) values it more highly.

[Dave Underwood]

Well done on the return and landing. The joy of two engines!

I am not an A&P, but like all here, I like to fly safely without having the remortgage the house and that is the basis of the following.

You should have a long discussion with your A&P and review the state of the engine. How old (years), how many hours, has it been overhauled before and who did the overhaul with what parts.

If it was a fairly new engine with relatively few hours, say half time, I would pull the cylinder and thus have good access to look over the interior of the engine, cam shaft etc. If the interior inspection and a good look at the other jugs showed nothing, I would be tempted to order up a replacement cylinder and go with that. That is certainly the simplest and least expensive option and allows you to start to save for the next expense. Your A&P can advise.

The heads on these engines do separate, but there are often tell tale signs. There have been a couple of articles about this type of failure and what to look for, but I don't have any references to hand. A web search might help. That said, it may have been in Light Plane Maint. If you know someone who has all the old issues, it might be worth while taking a look.

If the jugs were not replaced at the last overhaul and it was done a long time ago then you are looking at a different picture. What is its general health, oil consumption etc. Is it a light case? You will face a crank replacement on O/H if it is not a VAR crank. Once again your A&P is a good source of advice. TCM seems still to give you full credit on both light cases and non VAR cranks when you go reman.

I think one of Mike Bush's "Savy Aviator" articles covered a lot of the issues and I think it has also been written up in Light Plane Maint.

I have faced a similar decision twice now, fortunately without the engine failure in flight. The first time on another plane, the engine looked good and we replaced the jug and flew on. It was a pretty solid IO470.

The second time on my 337, I bite the bullet and got a factory reman although my A&P started with the "let's O/H it" view.

On the 337, it's a turbo so the heads are more highly stressed anyway meaning 6 new jugs. It was also well past mid time with log enteries, but not the detailed paperwork from the previous O/H. It also had a non VAR crank requiring replacement and original case. The accessories were all getting on as well.

I did the sums and got to the point where the factory reman unit was not that much more expensive than the O/H. When I ordered the factory reman I figured it would increase the value and I liked the warranty cover. I also intend to keep the plane for a while so can take the longer view. There was also the issue of time as the reman is a much faster way to go.

I just don't tell my wife the costs of anything plane related. I figure the detailed costs will just confuse the issue and create demands for jewlery, new cars etc. I am trying to convince her that it keeps me off the streets and sane, but I am having some difficulty with that part.

I guess it also depends on about 50 or 100 other factors as well.

There are several folks selling TCM remans. with Trade a Plane being a good source of information and contacts.

Best of luck with your thinking.

[WebMaster]

The good thing about a cont reman is that if the case is light, the crank isn't proven to be a VAR, it doesn't matter to them. They will take it in as a valid core.

With a good overhaul shop, if the case is light, you need to buy a heavy case. If you can't prove it's a VAR crank, you have to buy a new crank. In my situation, both of them, The cases were old, light, they had been overhauled at least once. We couldn't prove the VAR crank, so I went with a Reman.

[Jim Rainer]

First, are you sure you need an overhaul? Was the engine damaged beyond the one cylinder? What's it's condition otherwise; low time, heavy case, var crank, good accessories, etc.?

I am flying two field overhauls on '76 normally aspirated. They were overhauled by Jewell Aviation in Kennett, MO (the bootheel of MO.) I've had an IO-360 and an IO-520 down here in years past. The owner is very familiar with 337's and specialilzes in engine overhauls. Both engines on my 337 were done there by the previous owners. One is about 1150 hrs and the other 570.

He'sonly 30 minutes from my home field so that's an advantage you won't have. Check Airnav - fuel there is $2.59 guaranteed full service - TKX. You can ship your engine to him which is how he receives most of his business or borrow a 206 or Big 6 and fly it there.

Decide first, though, if you need an overhaul or just a new cylinder.

[WebMaster]

TCM is down.
Their web site is back up, but they have no electricity at the facility, which of course, is located near Mobile, AL.