Special Prices for SOAPA Members on Gear-door Mod and other STCs

Ernie Martin · #1 12-21-09, 03:08 PM

Ray Torres, who owns RT Aerospace and is an expert on the structure of our aircraft, was a significant contributor to the engineering work done by SOAPA on the SIDs.

During that effort I had asked him to consider reduced pricing for his modifications for SOAPA members and he has agreed to do so.

Through the end of the year pricing will be reduced for SOAPA members, and the reductions may be extended. You may visit his website at www.rtaerospace.com and contact him directly on pricing at 305.256.7975 or rtaero@bellsouth.net.

Ernie

rmorris · #2 12-21-09, 07:44 PM

Ernie,
Always good to hear when someone is willing to offer promotional pricing.

As opposed to each person contacting him and getting different 'negotiated' style discounts, why not just ask him to give you a list of his mods and the special pricing he is willing to extend? Then you could just post that info here on our site.

BTW - I spoke with him during my windshield replacement, and he seems like a nice guy. I ended up buying the STC for center post deletion and am very happy with my decision.

-Robert

PS. If anyone out there has a KLN 90 / A / B / KLN 900 GPS, I can help you freshen up your database. I have some extra database downloads left on my subscription. To take advantage, I must download anything needed by 12/31/09. Normal cost of single cycle update is $110, I will do it for $45. great chance for you to get the current cycle for a fraction of the cost. Drop me an email at rmorris@agsi.us
________
MAINE MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES

Ernie Martin · #3 12-21-09, 11:54 PM

I'll ask if he wants to post a SOAPA price list.

Aside from being a nice guy, he's arguably the most knowledgeable person on Skymaster structures. He was a Senior Structural Engineer with Eastern Airlines when he came across his first Skymaster. From there he developed of all the Skymaster-specific structural STCs (baggage door, removal of windshield center post, landing gear aft door removal). Interestingly, he is also an FAA Designated Engineering Representative (DER) in structures. He has owned and maintained Cessna 337s for 20 years.

Ernie

Ernie Martin · #4 12-22-09, 06:52 PM

From Ray:

Gear Door Deletion Kit STC - 20% off list
Baggage Door Retrofit STC (non pressurized aircraft) - 20% off list
All other mods - 10% off list price

Ernie

rick bell · #5 12-22-09, 08:40 PM

he is a straight shooter. my vortex generators were ground off on a belly in and ray was
gracious to provide the clips and no charged and even mailed then. have not experience that from any other supplier and doubt anyone else has.

rmorris · #6 12-24-09, 06:26 PM

Rick,
I looked around his site and could not find VGs, can you provide a url that shows where RT Aero provides them?
-Robert
________
Bongs

tkirklindale · #7 12-31-09, 12:10 PM

hi my name is Tommy Kirk. i bought a 1965 337 A 1 yr ago this November. WOW what a yr i am an A&P mechanice but havent ever worked on a 337 or flown one but i realy like the aircraft and wanted one real bad so one day on eBay i saw one i could aford so i went to look i did a pre buy on it and new it was going to need a lot of work. it was left in a hanger for over 14 yrs i pulled here out and spent a week getting it ready, from mags to fuel pumps, hoses so on so fourth...... basicly did a 500 hour rebuild/ inspection engines had been pickled to some point spent about $6000 getteing ready to ferry pulled her out hit the boost pump up went the fuel flow hit the starter cough spit bang and to life it came ran it for an hour mag check all good went to the front same cough spit bang and to life it came. ran even better than the rear or it sounded better. so i took off and flew it in the pattern for an hour landed refueled and departed for a 5 hour VFR
flight to texas. was uneventful , since then i have replaced all hydraulic lines and swung the gear and rebuilt the front prop replaced the rear prop another $9000 finally my IA said it is ready to be signed off .i have in parts alone $15000. so any way, the reason for my letter is every body is telling me that i am wasting my money and the 337 takes a lot of work to maintain i have lost confidence and gotten very discouraged in the aircraft. i only paid 25k for the plane. i added all the receipts up i have 42k in the aircraft. it has 3400TT and 400TT on both engines but they are over 10 yrs old all compression is 75. oil pressure 75 on front 50 on rear at running temp. avionics are 1985 junk they work that's all. but the aircraft is very solid and i am asking your opinion should i cut my loses or should i finish the plane i figure another 30k to finish the plane like i want it with new avionics and paint i can paint it my self its what i do so
that's not a problem please enlighten me i really have liked the 337, i am even hearing it from my wife she think it is the ugliest plane she ever seen. i haven't flown it anymore than 2or 3 hours and as soon as it gets signed off . I'm going to fly it a lot before i spend any more money on it and make sure the engines are going to hold up. any suggestion on that. what a journey this has been! i really believe this would make a great plane once completed. any help and advice u could give would be much appreciated. thank you for listening to my rant. the only issue i have is the right aux fuel gauge does not work and the cessna 400 auto pilot does not work i found a shop Gulfport avianics in FL they priced me a 430 /330/and g106 and audio pnl for $17500 instaled. any know where to get it cheaper.. sincerly lost and confussed

hharney · #8 12-31-09, 04:21 PM

You are preaching to the choir on this website. Most of us (98%) have the bug and love the airplane or we would not be here. I think it's the greatest aircraft in it's class that has ever been built. Most women really like them too because they are safe, visibility is great from the cabin, easy to enter and exit, comfortable, etc. I can't imagine doing what you have already accomplished and give up. You obviously must have some passion for the Skymaster or you wouldn't be were you are today. Don't give up now, push on.

Here is the only real problem I see, you going to have $75K into a '65 A model and in today's market you can buy a nice late model for that kind of money that already has what you want in avionics. But you're already into this one so keep it up and make it the airplane you've always wanted. It is the greatest airplane you will ever own.

Let me make a BIG suggestion, you need to read this message board. There is so much info here that it will help you make the decision. You can search any topic and remember this site goes back to 2001. Then plan to attend Sun N Fun this year in Lakeland, FL April 13th for the SOAPA meetings. You can see, hear and talk to owners from all over the country.

Ernie Martin · #9 12-31-09, 07:39 PM

I second Herb on both keeping the airplane (in part because the alternative of selling it will probably result in a BIG loss) and searching this Message Board on the remaining issues.

Prior messages will tell you that:

1. It may be way cheaper to repair the autopilot (most of the time all it takes is changing leaking capacitors), and the 400 is a good unit once repaired. It's not easy finding a shop that still repairs them but they exist, and the device is split into two boxes that can be removed from the aircraft and sent out.

2. It may be hard/costly to repair the fuel guages, in part because a special instrument to do it is hard to find (although yours may have non-capacitance sensors, and it may be easier), and while I don't recommend it, there are owners who've given up and carry a calibrated dip stick (since, even when they're working well, it's recommended that you always do a visual check).

3. The new Garmin Aera products and the wide availability of used modern avionics from shops who've removed them from airplanes that have gone glass offers the possibility of getting comparable performance to what you're considering at big, big savings.

Just food for thought.

Ernie Martin

Skymaster337B · #10 12-31-09, 09:32 PM

If you own the airplane then it isn't worth selling at today's market. However, if you have a loan on it then it might be worth letting the bank repo it.

tkirklindale · #11 01-01-10, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skymaster337B

If you own the airplane then it isn't worth selling at today's market. However, if you have a loan on it then it might be worth letting the bank repo it.

nope its all mine any idea on a good avionics shop

Dale Campbell · #12 01-04-10, 10:21 AM

Hi Tommy,
As Herb said, you love them or hate them. I to have the love of the 337. I purchased the 1978 337H, 9 years ago and love to fly the safest aircraft ever built. I to put a great amount of cash in restoring my bird. With dual inline engines, you may have miner failures that are not life threatning, as long as you do your fuel managing properly. Most 337 crashes are pilot error on running out of fuel or flying into bad weather or being careless pilots. Very few where aircraft failures. As long as you maintain a possitive attitude on the maintance, and you are the right person to do that. The rest of us that have to pay for every hour of work do not have the advantage you have. So go forward with the work. Once completed, you will have a masterpiece like Herb has. You will enjoy many years of enjoyable, safe flights. Tell the people that never enjoyed the 337 looks or safety in flight to go pound sand because they know nothing about what a safe aircraft really is. Safe flying, Dale

CO_Skymaster · #13 01-02-10, 03:52 PM

I do understand your frustration with refurbishing your aircraft. I've had a similar situation with my aircraft. I have a 1966 337-A and I bought it for a low price of 46,000. I knew buying at that price I would have to perform some repairs, but I don’t think I was prepared for the amount of effort I would have to put in. I expected that any repairs to aircraft would be like repairing my car. I drop it off and one mechanic would work on it until finished. I instead found repair required a lot of leg work and research on my part, most parts are not kept at the A&P shop (no NAPA to deliver components in an hour), components and repairs are expensive, and repairs are not done quickly. I think my biggest frustration comes from how long it takes to do anything in aviation. The only think fast about it are the airplanes themselves.

I did some quick calculations before I bought the aircraft on operations and maintenance cost and compared it to flying commercially and rental. What I determine from that exercise was that there was no way to justify purchasing the aircraft if financial concerns were my only reason. I just count it as one of those passions in my life that makes no financial sense, and most of the time I'm comfortable with that.

I purchased my aircraft in March 2007 and since then I've had 3 annuals, all expensive. To be fair I also think of items to add to my annual during the year and have my A&P fix them.

First year and annual:
1. Landing gear system seals were leaking and all the o-rings had to be replaced.
2. Rear muffler had to be replaced.
3. Lots of obvious small problems had to be taken care off

Second year and annual:
1. Several engine injector fuel lines had cracks and had to be replaced.
2. I (after help from this forum) tracked down my electrical problems by replacing battery, voltage regs, clearing all connections, and found the rear alternator was not working. (On the old skymaster, one alternator can't supply the needs of the aircraft, so circuit breakers kept popping) So the rear alternator was replaced
3. Rear spinner disintegrated during flight, so had to buy a new one, front one was also show signs of failing. The front spinner was replaced.

Third year and annual (still occurring):
1. Rigging was corrected
2. Dynamic Prop balancing could not be done because rear motor mounts were degraded (decided to replace all motor mounts)
3. Sent my entire instrument cluster out to be refurbished (Fuel gauges were unreliable or didn't work), found out also after that, my fuel senders in the tank were not working properly, and send those out for refurbishing).
4. Front Throttle Body and fuel pump had to be refurbish, sent those out.
5. Had foul weather window rebuilt and replace all window and door gaskets. During cold days the heater couldn't keep up with the cold air flowing in.
6. Replace valve cover gaskets to slow down all the oil leaks I've been getting.

This is a sample of what I've had to deal with on my aircraft and it is a lot. Each repair is expensive, but I'm making headway. I know even if I was fed up and sold the aircraft I would not get the money I've put in out of it. Again, I consider it a passion that would not make sense to anyone else but aircraft owners.

After these last set of repair, my aircraft may not look nice, but I believe I can trust it to fly me cross country with some reliability. I'm also adding a few other gadgets I would just like to have and then I will be happy with my aircraft for awhile. There are other items like Xerion engine instruments and Aspen avionics and autopilot I would like to add, but that is far in the future.

The reason for this long story is to let you know that your situation is not unusual. Aircraft are always going to require fixes and maintenance. It's always going to be expensive to fix, but I think it is manageable. I'm currently frustrated also with my aircraft, but I'm starting to see light at the end of the tunnel.

Hope this helps,

Karl

tkirklindale · #14 01-01-10, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hharney

You are preaching to the choir on this website. Most of us (98%) have the bug and love the airplane or we would not be here. I think it's the greatest aircraft in it's class that has ever been built. Most women really like them too because they are safe, visibility is great from the cabin, easy to enter and exit, comfortable, etc. I can't imagine doing what you have already accomplished and give up. You obviously must have some passion for the Skymaster or you wouldn't be were you are today. Don't give up now, push on.

Here is the only real problem I see, you going to have $75K into a '65 A model and in today's market you can buy a nice late model for that kind of money that already has what you want in avionics. But you're already into this one so keep it up and make it the airplane you've always wanted. It is the greatest airplane you will ever own.

Let me make a BIG suggestion, you need to read this message board. There is so much info here that it will help you make the decision. You can search any topic and remember this site goes back to 2001. Then plan to attend Sun N Fun this year in Lakeland, FL April 13th for the SOAPA meetings. You can see, hear and talk to owners from all over the country.

thanks i have read it every time i had an issue and it has really helped me out. and i think im going to keep it and fly it till i get sick of it the wife told me i can spend the moneys to do the avanices but she put me on a budget of $12500 any ideas of a good shop close to texas