Skymaster valuations

[stratobee]

With all due respect, I think some of you are still a little bit reluctant to accept just how bad the times are. For all aircraft, not just for Skymasters.

Let's look at some real world examples:

http://greatvehicles.chooseyouritem..../12163778.html

Halftime engines. $39.000. On the market for 208 days.

http://greatvehicles.chooseyouritem..../11046720.html

More than 2/3's left on engines, $49.500, on the market for 327 days.

The list goes on ad nauseum on http://www.globalplanesearch.com/view/all/All.htm

All I'm saying is that obviously the buyers are not finding them rightly priced, or they would not be sitting on the shelf this long. So the notion that you pay either up front or later is not entirely true. What you spend on them to keep them up is not something you'll get back in todays market.

[Roger]

Strato...

With all due respect, you really do not seem to have a clue. Your first example has NO LOGS. If you have ever owned an airplane, you would know what that means, and if not, then it's not even worth talking about.

Your second example is listed as a 1965G. Well that's real nice, except there is no such thing as a 1965G. So I would suggest that once again you are attemptng to compare something that doesn't exist.

I can't even find the third example, but I would imagine it's not much different than the first two.

I think it's great that you are looking, but you seem to be living in the twighlight zone as to cost, operations and maintenance, which is exactally what this web-board is all about.

I personally am done responding to this dream sequence in a bad movie. The next thing you know, Bobby will wake up in the shower.

[Cole5Oh5]

Yo, STATOBEE, Hang on there, Dude.
If you were looking for a reasonably priced Skymaster, why aren't you bidding on one of those??

Spend your money, or NOT, and stop the whining. A Skymaster is not in expensive, but then neither is a good woman. So, you can pick up a cheap one, spend major money to get her to where you want, or spend a little more and get one that someone else has already poured their hard earned money into.
Take a look at my tag line, you'll get what I mean.

[Ed Coffman]

Exactly! As a young 20 year old lady years ago told a 40 year old friend of mine. "Honey, you can drive a Ferrari or a station wagon. It is your choice" He picked the Ferrari until she turned into a station wagon.
________
Plymouth gtx

[Ernie Martin]

While I don't disagree with the above, let me offer some hope based on my experience.

There are occasional opportunities, where a person HAS to sell and you can pick up an aircraft at, say, $20,000 under market value. Eight years ago, after selling my first Skymaster, I bought my 337G with half-time engines, updated avionics and maintained by the Ohio State university FBO for $71,000, when market was close to $100,000. But I was without an airplane for about 6 months, looking for such an opportunity (the seller had been using it for business and had already bought a larger aircraft to accomodate growth, so the Skymaster was just a liability on his balance sheet) and I negotiated hard.

If you have mechanical skills (or a friend who does) and lots of time, and can use some of the tips in this forum to buy parts, you may be able to find an aircraft with some deficiencies that can be brought to a satisfactory standard at a total price within your budget. The trick here is a) to make sure you know exactly what's wrong (that you are later pleasantly surprised when there is LESS wrong than you thought, and not the opposite) and b) to leverage the deficiencies to reduce the price BEYOND what the deficiencies suggest (take market value, deduct for repair of the deficiencies at full FBO labor/parts rates, and deduct another $20,000 for uncertainties and for the fact that in its current condition the aircraft attracts 90% less buyers).

But both of these examples still require that you find an expert to determine condition and, in the second case, the remedies and the resources to accomplish them. End result should be a fully airworthy aircraft, not an accident waiting to happen.

Ernie

[stratobee]

Ernie, I think everyone is missing the point. I'm not talking about odd opportunities. Those exist in all markets and like you said, are rather random. Right time, right place kind of things.

I was merely reflecting on the fact that overall prices have decreased. This has obviously upset many people here and I'm made out to be the bad guy, so I might as well just embrace that since the damage is already done. I understand that my views are in-popular on a board where most people have paid for something they thought would if not increase in value, at least not decrease. Believe me that this is not something I obviously wish upon you, I'm just observing this a a spectator and a potential buyer.

My point was alway this:

A real depreciation in overall valuations across the board for aircraft, whether you have new engines or clapped out ones, whether it's in mint condition or has flown 100.000hrs, whether it's a Cessna 337 or a Luscombe.

The same depreciation has not happened on the maintenance side (in fact the opposite), so there's a bigger gap between what you can get for your aircraft when you sell it, and what has gone into it in parts and maintenance. All that effort and those parts will not get rewarded come selling time.

So, sure, a clapped out 337 that you want to make mint will cost you tons, this I completely agree with. But the point I was making was that the same clapped out or dolled up 337 5-10 years ago would cost twice as much as it does today. Nothing in the aircraft has changed, just the economic times.

[Paul Sharp]

Strotobee, looking at your overall responses on this thread, I'm afraid I have to agree with the others. You aren't living in the real world.