Complete interior re-furbish

[hharney]

Well I flew 2JF for the last time today, at least for a while anyway. Tomorrow we totally gut the inside to make way for the new interior. What a great time to be involved. I have no job right now so I can participate in this project daily. I will start this thread and continue to update as much as I can the progress of 2JF as the new interior is born. Photos too. Here are some of my plans so far, please feel free to comment on any part of this as needed. I started working with Bill McFadden several months ago. He has a company in Kalamazoo, Michigan that does re-upholstering on all kinds of big boy toys. His specialty, airplanes. All kinds of airplanes. He has even re-done Skymasters before. This guy has quite a reputation in this area. He is known for his premier work when it comes to aircraft interiors. He doesn’t advertise and he is busy all the time. I scheduled 2JF in July to finally get started tomorrow. About a month ago Bill met with Tammy and I at our house with boxes and boxes of samples. We looked, matched, selected and finally came up with a pattern that we thought we liked. Leather, some fabric, wool carpet and ultra leather for the headliner. Tammy and I kept the samples and looked at them for about a week. We had a real sunny day so we took the sample outside and looked at them in the sun real good. Then Bill called back and said that the fabric was no longer available. He said that he would come back up to Grand Rapids and bring the fabric samples so that we could select something else that might be similar and work with our other materials that we had selected. Again Bill spent about 3 – 4 hours with us helping us to match samples. We found a nice replacement and then uses a different carpet to better match the fabric. We were ready to write a check for the down payment. Bill ordered the materials and is checking all the certifications and also having some of the fabric treated to meet requirement for aircraft. Bill has worked a lot with the Bonanza Flyers Club. There is a repair shop on AZO that specializes in Beech. He has gotten many jobs from that shop so his experience is valid. If you can work with the Bonanza guys and make them happy, us Skymaster drivers will be a breeze.

Along with the upholstery I am looking at all new glass. Maybe go tinted, any thoughts on that? The windscreen is still in amazingly good shape for 40 years but now is the time if you’re going to do it. Should it be tinted? I think Jerry’s is? I am looking at Rosen Visors, anyone have those? I think they are the best out there. I talked with Don Nisser over at Commodore Aero and he had a 5th seat for the rear of 2JF. For some reason I never had the right 5th seat. After owning this aircraft for the last 32 years it is time to get the right seat back there. I really don’t use it that much but I wanted the original equipment. Also needed the arm rest that bolts to the wall for that 5th seat in the rear. I plan to put some new strobes on the wing tips. Has anyone used LED yet? Whelen has some nice stuff out there but I would have to get a field approval. This LED stuff is really cool. I switch out the rotating beacon in July with an LED and wow, unreal how visible this thing is. Anyone else have one yet? Mine is Whelen, they have the thing STC’d for 337. As long as we are on lights, I am looking at making some changes on the interior lights in the cabin. LED would be nice here but I haven’t found anything that is certified yet. It’s all kit plane experimental stuff. Pluslight system for the landing lights is a yes too. Well there are a few other things I am looking at and if you have any ideas that I may not be thinking about let me know. For now that’s about all. See ya soon.

[stackj]

Go for the tinted windshield. I didn't and I wish I had. I have the Rosen Visors and the are far better than the solid visors that were original equipment.

Superior Panel has some LED and strip lighting that has been approved by Canada for helicopters. You might be able to get some data from them for a field approval. I was able to get a field approval for luminescent strip lighting from... Geez, I can't remember the company name now, but it doesn't matter... They are out of business now.

[gkey]

I think if you ask 10 guys the question about tinted vs plain, you'll get about 5:5 either way. Right now I am installing a plain windshield. I had a tinted one. Why did I change?

The tinted one got very "milky".
The vision through a tinted one is not as great, especially with dusk/dawn/rain.
As long as you have Rosen's, who cares?
Tinted windshields are more expensive.

BTW, I have Rosen's on GKEY. The BIG ones.

My other plane, a 172N, had a tinted windshield as well, and I changed to a plain windshield on advice from my trusted mechanic. I am very glad I did. Now that GKEY is in line for a new windshield I am doing the same thing. Plain for me.

I don't have LED's for beacon and strobes on GKEY yet, but I do have them on my 172N. They are absolutely awesome. Even the beacon can be seen miles away in bright sunlight. The strobes are bliniding too, and sometimes the glare is almost too much when I'm close to clouds.

Yep, I am definately installing a LED beacon and strobes on GKEY too.

GKEY has a PulseLite system, and the two lights (taxi & land) in the cowl alternate (I don't have the wing lights). But even so, tower can still see me really quickly from far away. The ducks too.

[hharney]

Jim/Jakes, you are probably trying to say "Aero Enhancements" for the strip lighting. What I am more interested in is the LED Whelen
http://www.whelen.com/pb/Aviation/70...sion_Light.pdf
position / strobe combo. Is that what you have on the 172 Jakes? I talked to Whelen and they said that they do not have the STC/TSO on these yet but thought it could be accomplished with a field approval. I thought that if someone else has gone through this with a Skymaster it would make it easier for me. I have the LED rotating beacon and it is awesome. It is already TSO'ed and is available at Aircraft Spruce. You will love it. Jakes is right, the visibility is unbelievable. At night it's like a patrol car.

Interior LED would be nice but I have not located anything that is certified yet. There is lots of aviation related stuff out there but most of it says experimental only.

So for the glass on the side windows, I really think I am going to go with Grey tint and UV. Great Lakes Aero seems to be the best price.

http://www.glapinc.com

How does Pulselite compare to other pulse light systems? They seem to be a lot more money,
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...arlightsys.php
This is about a third the cost of Precise Flight.

[gkey]

Herb,

On my 172 I have almost exactly the Whelen LED unit you posted a link to, except that mine is red , i.e. a beacon. Can see it 5 miles coming. I will definately install it on my 337 too.

LED interior lights sound nice, but I am only apprehensive about the intensity of this kind of light. I don't know if they are dimmable. Having someone switch on an bright white LED inside the plane at an inopportune time, can reduce my night vision just at the moment I need it. In my 337 I have those little "eye socket" lights that can swivel around, and are individually dimmable. I still prefer them over LED's for interior lights. OTOH, a LED courtesy light under the wing might not be a bad idea...

I absolutely WILL, however, change out my landing and taxi lights to HID's. I have those on my 172, and last X-mas I had to buy Raybans's for all the folks working the tower!! I have the Precise Flight PulseLite system on both planes, and it works fantastic. You get what you pay for, for sure.

For windows, I don't mind a tinted side window. But the windshield should be clear. Just my own belief. Especially during dusk, dawn or rain I find I strain my eyes a lot less looking through a clear windshield.

[Dale Campbell]

Hi Herb,
I just had my windshield replaced on my 337H last year. I also installed clear, because the tinted one was getting hassy and not to good at night. The clear is much better at night, but I left the side windows tinted. Dale

[hharney]

Thanks for all the info gkey and Dale. It sounds like staying with clear at least for the windscreen is advised. I can really see (no pun intended) how that makes sense. If a person installs the Rosen system then there shouldn't be a problem. While on the subject of windows, side windows that is, it appears that now with the interior completely stripped the side windows are truly fastened through the hull. I was told that they had a doublers or something inside around the frame for the window to attach to so that the outside rivets did not have to come out. Not so. I am so vein. So here is the question: have you had to tackle the replacement of the side windows before? Is it a big job? Mine are not that bad, and maybe I should just take out the inner glass and clean and replace the seal and be done with it. I really wanted to install the tinted glass on the side but not sure about removal. Any experience here would be nice.

What about insulation and sound control? My upholstery technician is using some padding/sound material that is bonded to the side panels but why not add more? This is the chance to do it. Will it help? Has anyone had experience with this? I would think that on the rear firewall it couldn’t hurt. The sides might be a different story but looking at Aircraft Spruce the material they had was not all that expensive.

I plan to change the air vents with some type of more modern device. I don’t think this will be a problem because I am leaving them in the same position, same ducting and will purchase units for aircraft use. The old originals are really bad and tacky looking. Not sure I will do anything with the lights inside yet but I am seriously looking at the LED exterior entry light that Aircraft Spruce has. They fit in the inspection panel penetration and are battery operated so that you don’t have to turn on the master to use them while loading the aircraft. They look really great and certified for aircraft. I might just put one on each side.

Here is a photo that Larry took of the cabin with the interior out. Thanks Larry. More to come as we continue down this road.

[gkey]

Herb,

Take a look at what my interior looks like inside. Do you plan anything like this? The central console running along the headliner really makes thing work, and also actually makes the plane "look" bigger. It has a more corporate feel to it, almost like the bigger planes. I have the "eye ball" vents that can be adjusted for flow and direction, and my interior lights are also of the "eye ball" type. Especially duirng flying at night, I am very concerned about lighting up the interior too much, as it can decrease my night vision ability - at least for a while.

Just on a different note - I have the clamshell "airstair" type door, and no matter how many times I warn people to watch for the upper door, I still get people bumping their heads into it. Then I bought simple reflector strips and pasted them on the door, so that when the door is open the reflector shows. No head banging since. $4 modification, worth every cent.

[Dale Campbell]

Hi Herb,

I had my old ceiling plastic panels covered with a felt like material that came out nice and helps to soundproof interior. Photo enclosed. Dale

[hharney]

Dale/Jakes
Looks nice, problem is you have a later model aircraft. I am dealing with a 1968 C model that never had ceiling panels as yours. Mine just has the fabric that is hung with wire clips. Not sure I can change all that but I will ask. If a person could source some salvaged panels it may be retrofittable but at what expense. I don't have the clam shell door just the ole swinging one on hinges, but haven't noticed anyone hitting their head on it. :-)

[Guy Paris]

Herb, on RT Aerospace's page Ray has a 65 337 listed for sale. The last mod has a rigid celing mod. guy... www.rtaerospace.com

MODIFICATIONS:
RT AERO GEAR DOOR MOD
RT AERO CARGO POD
RT AERO O2A TYPE ENTRY DOOR WITH FLIGHT OPENABLE WINDOW
RT AERO CONVERTIBLE AFT BENCH
SEAT/CARGO COMPARTMENT
RT AERO WINDSHIELD CENTER POST DELETION
RT AERO O2A TYPE BUBBLE PILOTS SIDE WINDOW –GROUND OPENABLE FOR TAXI

"RT AERO RIGID CEILING MOD"

[hharney]

Ray does not have that option listed on his site. I saw his plane that is for sale at the SOAPA last year and looked at the ceiling panels. Based on some of the costs of these mods I think it would stretch the buget a little far.

[n86121]

I recently replcaed the headliner on my 1969 T337D with an airtex. About $400, fit just fine.

D

[hharney]

Well after spending 10 days in Idaho on assignment and then Thanksgiving week distracted me to the point of not making it to the hanger, I finally made the trip to 4N0 to check on the progress of 2JF. Flew the Twinco down on a beautiful Saturday morning.

The interior is completely gutted. It is really interesting to see all the framework that goes together in this aircraft. I have never been through a complete refirb before so bear with my amazement and report. I found the entire hull in very good shape. No corrosion (could be that spending most of it's life in the southern Idaho dessert helped) except one spot on the main door. Not sure what that's all about? Any way a little treatment of some kind should remedy that issue. I had to remove most of the insulation because my interior tech's left it in place. I pulled it out so that I could inspect what's under that wonderful stuff. All the insulation is Fiberglass (urgh) not my favorite product. I am thinking about removing it all and replacing it with a certified foam product. Anyone use the foam panels before? It looks positive, anything is better than filterglass. The insulation in the headliner was really ratty. It has been dug through so many times that it is to the point of lots of small pieces that really don't work anymore. I will need to do something different here. Maybe the foam.

I have decided to replace all the glass. Once I got into the window panel areas it looks like on the rear windows that it is a combination of screws and rivets that attach the aluminum angle to hold the glass in place. After removing the holding devices that are screwed in, I should be able to remove just some of the riveted holding brackets to release the glass. Shouldn't be too bad but going back in might be another story. We will see, stay tuned. I talked with Great Lakes today about replacement windows and they can ship within about 3 days of order. They are located in Flint, MI so I may just drive over and pick them up and take a tour. I think I will go with the grey tint on all exterior side windows, clear on the windscreen and pilot and co-pilot sides and may look at using grey on the inside and outside of the rear. I will see how dark that is before a final decision is made.

I have ordered the Rosen visors, new style air vents that might require a field approval, FM oil filters to replace the factory screen system, Max Pulse light system for the landing lights (has anyone used this?) it's STC'd, new electric clock (still had the original wind up) because the old one is getting really tired, LED exterior light for under the wing that is battery operated so that you don't have to turn on the master to load up.

I have attached these photos to keep you from getting board of reading my report. Some close ups of the window holding devices and general shots of the hull stripped out.

[JeffAxel]

Herb
I noticed on the shot of the ceiling of your plane these big black rectangles glued to the aluminum. I think this is the lead stuff Cessna used for soundproofing. If so, it has resulted in corrosion in some planes. I would rip any of it you see out, and look for corrosion underneath. I bet you will find these in the belly as well, and corrosion is more likely down there. As to the foam insulation, my P337 had it when I got it and I think it helps on the noise front. It really helps with temperature insulation as well. Nice panel!! Hope your interior goes in well....keep us in the loop......we all love seeing other guys spend money!!