Fresh TSIO-360-CB

[N5ZX]

Howdy, all.
As I've mentioned in previous posts, we purchased a heavily upgraded '77 P337....then the boss decided that rather than fly it as-is for a while, he wanted to put in LOTS of additional upgrades. The result is a very impressive (and very expensive) SkyMaster.

In this episode of: "N5ZX Upgrade Log", I'm gonna talk about engines for a minute (or seven)...

When we got the plane it had 1500 Total Time on front and rear. So we were past TBO. BUT we were still squeezing out 76-80 inches of compression and the engine was running smooth, no heating issues, no oil consumption.

I asked a few folks here, and on the Cessna Pilots Association forum, and even contacted continental directly and all said that it is RECOMMENDED to overhaul at 1400....but if you're getting good performance, you dont need to consider it urgent. I took that info to the boss who agreed but said "Replace them"....so I did. And so begins our story today:

In the purchase of the plane form Owen Bell (Avition Enterprises - Nashville) he offered to hang a fresh engine on the front for $25k. That number sounded pretty good. He didnt have one for the rear, so I started shopping.

I found one ready for overhaul sitting at Western Skyways in Colorado. They wanted $31k (with $13k Core Exchange) but theirs comes with a 5yr waranty, Owen's did not. On August 10th 2009 Western Skyways said they would have it ready for install in 4 weeks.

We decided that was fine, we would put the plane in for avionics upgrades, it would get out about the time the engine was ready, we would take it back to Nashville and have both fresh engines installed at the same time...along with the MT Composite Props. We had a plan. (that was our first mistake)

Well.....3 MONTHS later.....the avionics finally finished (phase 1)....but the rear engine (from Western Skyways) STILL wasnt ready. As they had been doing almost weekly, they promised "Just a few more days....we are waiting on an oil stick tube."

We decided to go ahead and take the plane back to Nashville and get then started on the front end.

Owen's son, Chris Bell, had given me my check-out in N5ZX when we bought it from them, and he was the crew-chief on the engine swap. He's a fantastic guy, and knows the plane (specific and type) exceptionally well in the shop and in the air. They let me pretend I was helping them for some of the work....really, I just tried to stay ot of their way. But every time they did something they would explain the whats and whys and I found it VERY educational.

In the process of installing the overhauled front engine, they found a few things that werent quite right and fixed em....without nickle and diming me on the invoice (thank you). We did the Janitrol Pressure test while we were in the guts...all good.

The day came when they had all the accessories mounted on the fresh front engine and it was ready to install...the rear engine arrived from Colorado. Chris was as eager to open the crate as I was and I thought to myself that it was kinda cool that somebody who does this stuff all the time still gets excited about opening the present. We popped the crate...big shiney engine...giddyness abounds... (sense the build-up?)

Wrong accessory bracket. Missing accessories. Missing documentation.

This, after repeatedly telling Western Skyways over and over again (for 3 months and always in writing) to coordinate with Owen Bell to make (darn) sure everything was right when that box opened....NO surprises! (the boss isnt a fan of disappointment). Apparently somebody didnt get the memo.

so....Chris and Owen spend a week and a half getting the right stuff to install the rear engine from Western Skyways. In fairness, the "missing accessories" were not part of their $31k quote. But they were fundamental parts that Owen had included in his $25k quote.

Okie Dokie....now in Late November BOTH engines are mounted. Both props are mounted. Ready for run-up. YAY!!!!! Finally! Front engine runs great! Rear engine.....ZERO oil pressure.

When I asked Western Skyways, they said that they tested the engine before shipping it.

I guess somehow the rear engine oil pressure regulator died in transit and needed to be replaced.

Honest, I'm trying to wrap this episode up: from the "go date" of placing the $5k deposit on the front engine to the "deliver date" of picking it up to take her home.... 5-months, 3-weeks, 3-days.....lots and lots of headaches.

I wont waste everyones time with an itemization of the components overhauled, if you want details, email me and I'll tell you what I can. Suffice it to say that the front and rear were substantially the same in terms of the work done.

Owen Charged $25k for the front, plus $5k to install the front and another $5k to install the rear.

Western Skyways Charged $31k for the rear....and we had to buy another $7k in additional accessories.

We sent Western Skyways the the removed (core) rear engine and Owen kept all the other bits that were removed.

We have 11 hours remaining in our break-in period. Upon reaching that point, I will drain the mineral oil and replace it with Phillips 20w-50 X/C (fall/winter) AeroShell W100 Plus (spring/Summer) and suppliment with CamGuard. We will adhere to the oil change regime recommended by Cessna Pilots Assn of changing oil (with analysis) and filters every 4 months or 25 hours....whichever happens FIRST. I know this is considered overkill by many. But My boss spent a fortune on this plane so far (more to come) and he doesnt want to skimp on maintenance.

For now, they are identical in performance. I'll let everyone know if I start seeing differences in performance or maintenance.

Moral to this chapter: Document...document...document. Ask LOTS of questions. Dont let your ego get in the way of letting the pro's talk amongst themselves....but make sure they keep you in the loop so you can learn.

Laslty.... NEVER trust a "quote". I dont know when things changed, but when I was in the contracting business a quote was a committment. I ate the overruns and I compensated for delays. Now it seems that quotes are little more than sales gimmicks to play bottom-line-limbo and see who can "guess" at the lowest number....with no realistic expectation of meeting it.

It's not evil....It's merely the evolution of business, I reckon.

But it's something the inexperienced consumer should be aware of so that they can plan their budget and schedule according.

Not that there are any other newbies reading these forums.....but just in case someone as new at this as I am stumbles in here and searches the forums....now they have more to think about.

Live and learn....or....learn and live.
Cole

[hharney]

Continental is running specials on new and rebuilt direct from the factory. Discounts of $1500 on new, $750 on rebuilt.

These are the only true ZERO time engines direct from Continental.

One year warranty.

Just an option for those considering.

There is lots of posts about how long these engines will go before OH or replacement. The same engine is in a Piper Seneca and has a 2000 hour TBO. Cessna would never go back and up the anny on TBO for the Skymaster because it didn't interest them. Most of the normal aspirated engines go for a minimum of 2000 hours and some way beyond that. I know of some P model turbo engines that have gone beyond 2000 also.

FWIW, I just did my annual last week and my front engine is at 1800 SMOH and the compressions were all high 70's. I'll keep running it for now. When I replaced the rear it had over 2300 SNEW and it was running fine when I sent it in for core.

I looked at your N5ZX at Owen's one year ago when I was picking up my wingtips. Nice airplane then and sounds really nice now.

Hope to see you at Sun 'N Fun....................

[N5ZX]

Thanks, Herb.

We're awfully proud of "X-Ray"

She's truely an AWSOME airplane.

I'm merely an ADEQUATE pilot.

Hopefully the forgiving nature of the SkyMaster breed will help me hone my skills enough to put her capabilities to better use.

Regrettably, we wont be at Sun-n-fun this year. My boss has me tasked out on other projects that week ( ). Besides, I would be a bit embarrassed to show up right now. It'd be like the new kid on the block showing up to the neighborhoos sand-lot with all the shiney new gear his parents could find in some catalog...and no clue what to do with it.

Next year I'll be able to participate much more competently. I am VERY eager to meet everyone.

For now.... I'll just practice in my back yard and try to figure out the gear horn issue. Oh-joy. And I'll occasionally share some of my upgrade observations so that others considering similar changes might be able to avoid some of the pot-holes I seem to have a uncanny nack for finding.

As for engine overhauls: Yeah, I know that compression and consumption should determine overhauls, not the hobbs meter. But the boss wanted it done. If I had resisted his demands and later had a mag stumble en route, I'd never hear the end of it.

I try to pick my battles carefully.

Cole