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  #1  
Old 11-16-05, 11:41 PM
Goat150 Goat150 is offline
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Question Stc for removal of the landing gear doors

Hi Guys,
I need help with a few things, since I bought my 1979 337
and after around 125 hrs, I've found i love the plane better then any twin i have flown, Baron 55E, And others.
To the point it's at the Avionices shop this week and next, for a complete Garmain Up date Twin 430s Gma 340, MD200,GTX 327
NexRAD Weather New Auto Pilot , and New STC Fuel Flight manager coupled to the 430s When I get her back she will fly the ILS Glideslope to the runway. Now I know some might think this $ $ 32,000.00 up grade is nuts, But after a lot of thought and the love I have of the plane, I fill I may have if the good Lord is willing
20 to 25 years left to fly. And the cost will be flown out of the plane.
Now hear where I need help, I would like to remove the gear doors and convert it open holes like the late model 210.
Can any one tell me if there is a STC to remove the door and a dealer that supplies all the parts needed to remove them?
And also I hear some thing about a STC Blower Kits that our out for the 210 hp N/A Engines, Can any one tell me is this true or would it be better two install Turbo's, and is there any after market kits with every thing one would need that is STCd to install? I would like to get just a little more power if possible?
The next step she is getting a complete new custom inter after the avionics are installed. I would like to if possible do some thing to get a little m ore power before painting the plane.
When I done I want this to be as good as 337 flying, MY Last Plane, so going all the way, Would like to went with a Rocket but that was a litte out of my price range.
OK SkyMaster Lovers , I need your help to finish her by the last of Jan . If any one can help or have any better thoughts to share, please reply. And trust me I havn't lost my mine, She just the plane I've picked to be my last !!!! Thanks MArk
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  #2  
Old 11-17-05, 12:40 AM
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Ernie Martin Ernie Martin is offline
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Your love for the Skymaster is well deserved and contagious.

The door removal STC is by RT Aerospace. Go to www.rtaerospace.com for more info. I know Ray Torres personally -- he's a fine, very talented engineer and an FAA DER -- and I know the product well, having used it in my first Skymaster.

On the engine upgrade let me share some opinions, some of which may be off the mark, so I invite others to jump in here and set me straight if I'm wrong. I would recommend two things: go slow and talk to Owen Bell at Aviation Enterprises (615-865-1802, owen.bell@juno.com), to the Riley people (www.superskyrocket.com) and to Tule River Aero Industries (www.tuleriveraero.com), the production facility for Riley.

The Riley conversions are proven but costly, and I keep hearing at times that they're not around anymore, so you've got to check. Owen has done a lot of work on re-powering Skymasters, but I don't know exactly where things stand, whether he is working on an STC or has one already.

I caution you to go slow because, for Riley, you want to make sure that they're going to be around after the install, and for Owen, I don't think there are a lot of conversions, so you're kind of a guinea pig.

If some of my engine views sound a bit negative, I need to disclose that, as an engineer, I'm leery of major changes to an overall system. Different engine means different stresses on the airframe and propeller, on the electrical system, etc. I like a product that was engineered, where hundreds were made and flown and flaws have been found on these hundreds of aircraft and the flaws corrected via Service Bulletins. So I'm biased.

Hope this helps.
Ernie
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  #3  
Old 11-17-05, 01:38 AM
Bob Cook Bob Cook is offline
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Mark

here is may 2 cents worth.



1) turbo / more hp
If you need turbo's then I would look for a factory installed system as the cost would be prohibitive if you had to buy all the parts seperately. I do not know of any STC'd turbo.

2) wait for STC'd diesels if they ever appear. They come with turbo's.

3) the superskyrocket is great but the fuel burn is hard to justify.

4) Gear door mod
I rather doubt if it buy's you much in the long run. If you are running around in ice and snow I would be less likely to install the mod. If you adhere to gear up above 500 ft then it only saves weight.

The aircraft should fit "the mission". That includes the addition of fuel tanks and how much IFR you are going to fly. If you plan on a lot of IFR then I would make sure you have "boots" and a SECOND TRANSPONDER and ENCODER. After being stuck a number of times I added the second transponder and last year I had both fail on a flight over an ADIZ.. maybe I should consider 3?

You might want to look at a new panel overlay such as aeroenhancements. They do a nice job and has great lighting.

In summary you should be "mission concious" and tweak the aircraft for it's intended purpose.

If you are running around the east I would still recomend a strikefinder (or stormscope) even with nexrad. It will detect fast buildups whereas nexrad is not as sensitive. I also find that nexrad can very immensely depending on region and time of year. Lot's of times I fly through RED and it is CAVU. Also you can be flying in orange on top of heavy percip. It needs interpretation BIG TIME.

The stormscope tells you where you shouldn't be and then you can tell ATC where you do not want to be....... I would not fly IFR without one and would take it over OB radar.

In most cases the limitation is the pilot and not the aircraft.

Enjoy and be careful

Bob
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  #4  
Old 11-17-05, 09:58 AM
Goat150 Goat150 is offline
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Door Change

Ernie,

Thanks for all the good info, and I do understand the trouble you can get into whin you get tofar away from the way a machine was
built. I see in heacy equipment that its hard enough to keep them running let a long change the way a component was engineered.
As for the door change, I take it that you have done that?
I'm having a little door trouble from time to time, just like I did on early model 210 I had one time. And it seems every time its just a
switch or wire broken or pulled loose. But they want to go to the power pack every time. The last time it happened ,I stood a round
and they were stating to take the power pack out, and had not even ran a pressure check to see what it was putting out.
Man I got upset and told these to APs that a hyd system doesn't know what it's running ,could be lifting a dozer blade up and down or working with landing gear as in this case, And you guys are not pulling that power pack until we run some hyd numbers.
Turned out it was a wire coming down to the front nose gear.
So any way I do understand why you are thinking lets go slow
a little at a time. Thanks Erine We will meet some place next year.
Mark 740-988-9605
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  #5  
Old 11-17-05, 10:09 AM
Goat150 Goat150 is offline
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Door Mod

Bob,

Thanks for the reply, The door mod is just to stop the trouble
that I always seem to have with doors. I had an early 210 one time and the doors drove me nuts !!

And I agree about the radar witch I have, With all the Garmin updates that they are installing this week, they wanted to take it out ,because the new system has the up link to real time weather, But I told them I understand what the radar is showing me and best keep it.

I do fly a lot of IFR flights and was thinking about how much
ice would the gear hold vs leaving the doors on.
I wouldn't even think about taking them off, but like the 210 I'm
having a lot of wire and switch trouble,, and find myself with the legs down a lot hundreds of miles from home.

Again Thanks Bob

MArk 740-988-9605
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  #6  
Old 11-17-05, 12:29 PM
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Ernie Martin Ernie Martin is offline
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The door mod is not a panacea in terms of a trouble-free gear retraction system. It does NOT alleviate problems with the power pack, bad wiring, switches that don't switch, hoses that might burst, etc. All it does is remove the rearmost clamshell doors, which are the ones that lead to the very high drag (think: parachute) while the gear is cycling and they are open. It enhances safety because, in an engine-out situation, cycling the gear won't have this huge drag over a 5-10 second period. While it does get rid of a couple of actuators and hydraulic lines, the bulk of the system remains, so keeping the system in good operating condition -- i.e., not skimping on maintenance -- is still required.

Bottom line: buy it for the lower drag during cycling, not because it's going to make a big difference in gear reliability or maintenance.

BTW, on the other issues, Bob Cook is one of the gurus of this forum. I agree with what he says and would heed his advice. I have one of the Aeroenhancements overlay panels in a polished burl, custom made for my 337G; the look is stunning and the electroluminescent lighting with battery backup a real asset to safety. I also have a Stormscope and share Bob's views that it's essential to stay out of the weather.

Ernie

Ernie
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  #7  
Old 11-17-05, 02:09 PM
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Dale Campbell Dale Campbell is offline
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Gear Doors

Hi Mark,
I have a 78' 337H and had the large doors removed and like the idea I can pull up gear 10 feet off runway and get the plane clean for climb or maybe a problem on climb out. The cleaner the ship the better she will preform. I live in N.E. Penna., the same climite as you and I would recomand large door removal. It does get rid of drag when you need less of it on climb out. The top end speed is not effected by door removal and I have never had a problem with snow and we get a lot of it. Maybe if you had a turbo or pressurized model & going much higher I would reconcider, but you & I can not fly that high. Only my opinion. Dale Campbell
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  #8  
Old 11-17-05, 03:45 PM
Bob Cook Bob Cook is offline
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doors

This is an age old discussion.

Ernie is right. There is no excuse for not having the gear system in good operating condition including the power pack and especially the solenoid valves.

If there is a leak or if the doors do not stay closed after a day or two the aircraft is trying to tell you something.

Since there is little drag with the gear down then why not put the gear up at a sensible altitude when doing a cockpit cleanup.

I never put the gear up under 500 ft but that is my operating proceedure. I prefer to pay attention to more important things such as possible engine failure.... or dodging birds.....

The mod is one of those things that give you a WARM and FUZZY fealing and definately reduces the weight of your wallet


Bob
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  #9  
Old 11-17-05, 06:39 PM
Ron Moore Ron Moore is offline
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gear doors

The only reason, in my simple mind, to remove the doors is in event of engine failure on takeoff. With doors, the book says to not don't raise the gear until you have enough altitude to survive the descent their drag may induce as they open and close. Without gear doors, and with an engine failure, you could safely retract the gear and reduce drag immediately, without concern for loosing altitude whrn the clamshells open.
I fly one airplane with, and one without.
Rather than all of the mods to a 337, consider a T337, a vanilla P337, or a Riley Rocket, not the "Super" Skyrocket. Either will be way cheaper than what you're considering. The Rocket I fly has full deice, cruises at 200k at FL200, 32 GPH.
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