S-Tec 3100 Information

[frank.oconnor19]

Hey Guys,

I spoke with some of the team for STec today. I got an email with what would be required for them to certify a 3100 for our planes. I have attached. Would welcome your feedback.

Thanks - Frank

[Ed Coffman]

I have STEC 60-2's in all my 337's. They are rock solid. I really cant see dropping another 10 grand plus installation to fix something that ain't broke. That said, my planes all had 400 series autopilots for a while, and despite 100's of thousands of dollars spent at Autopilots Central they constantly failed. If I had one of those, the 3100 would be my choice. I have one in my 210 and love it, but I would not replace a 60-2 or 55x with one.

Just my opinion

[patrolpilot]

My 400 is still working very well, but I know it is very beyond its life limit and doesn't have a lot of features like "flying by" a fix or yaw damper. It does fly a very precise ILS or LPV and is as smooth as silk as long as I act as the yaw damper.

I've contacted Garmin with a similar request for the 600 series and offered my airplane for the STC evaluation. I wonder how the two compare. The 3-axis price seems comparable. I will do some reading on the 3100. Right off the bat, it has the steam gauge compatibility. With the money involved in this, that isn't an issue with me as they will go away.

Talking to my Garmin dealer, the labor will probably match the cost of the equipment. If you already had an S-TEC, this would be the way to go.

I wonder if the 337 and P337 require much difference in the STC behind what we see. In other words, is Garmin or S-TEC doubling their effort to cover the two? Even with combined models, 50 owners are going to be tough to find.

Thanks for taking the initiative!

[YankeeClipper]

Other than the S-Tec System xx (i.e. 2-digit) series, what other modern/digital options are there for us at this point?

[patrolpilot]

Originally Posted by YankeeClipper

Other than the S-Tec System xx (i.e. 2-digit) series, what other modern/digital options are there for us at this point?

I'm not sure that there are any. With the limited number of airplanes, I'm not sure why any would be interested.

From the operator perspective, my worry is about sinking the money into an airframe for something like this and two years from now, not being able to buy, say a windshield or something similar, that renders the airplane unairworthy.

I get the manufacturing side of it as well. I was supposed to be flying a C210 for an agency by now as part of the paid flying I've started doing besides the patrol, but it hasn't happened yet. The C210 came from DHS and needs four-camera holes cut in the bottom. Just the engineering to generate the drawings to get it done is probably going to be $40K!

I look at STCs in a different light after being involved with the above. I seriously doubt that an outfit like RT Aerospace sees much of a return after they do all it takes to offer the modification. God bless them for doing it; its got to be a big bite.

I really doubt that I will ever hear back from Garmin.

[patrolpilot]

On my 400, Autopilot Central put some type of microprocessor between the A/P and the Sandel 3308 that eliminates the selector between NAV sources. The tuned source is the primary, but the Sandel can still display other sources as secondary.

If they had a microprocessor that dampened the course intercepts, I would be happy as a clam.

Frank, when you communicate with the S-Tec guy next, could you ask him what the estimate of man-hours for the installation is? I will be at the avionics shop this week to get the pitot-static system on my airplane checked after the TAS1000 installation. He is an S-Tec dealer, I will ask him as well.

[YankeeClipper]

Figured as much. My 400 (non-A/B) is no longer capturing glideslope, which may be the information source, not the A/P. Either way I'd be dropping money into an avionics ecosystem that can't be leveraged into something with digital stuff like the G5, and can't eliminate the vacuum, which appears to have advantages all its own.

So I suppose if we can't expect Dynon and Garmin to certify any time soon--or ever--I better get myself an S-Tec while the getting is good. That is to say, I'm still quite green in the realm of avionics, and don't know how often or after how long companies like Genesys tend to drop their product lines. If their new stuff makes something like the 55x obsolete, that could be a good reason. There is also, of course, the risk that Genesys could fold for some reason. If the others haven't certified anything for us at such point, then what?

[patrolpilot]

Originally Posted by YankeeClipper

If the others haven't certified anything for us at such point, then what?

Nothing is the short answer.

I looked at the base price of the SYSTEM 50 ($13.3K) and the 60 ($17.6); these are already TSO'd for the 337. I haven't done any searches here on the forum to see what users have had to say about them. There is an analog vs. digital thing, but I suspect there are some ways to get around that.

I don't see the 3100 as a fast process at all. From the letter:

• Once we get around 50 owners who have expressed interest, the next step would be;
• a commitment from 15 model owners to proceed with the STC. The commitment would be in the form of a purchase order to a Genesys Authorized Installation Center.

There are not 15 active forum members, let alone those that will put their money up.

Maybe it boils down to the bird in the hand thing. As I said, I will be at an avionics shop for a couple of days this week and I will talk to the guy about the STEC When I spoke to him about the airplane in September before the purchase, he said that the 400 was working, and I should keep it working, as the choices are limited and costly for the aircraft's age. He does no 400 work at all, no longer has any of the harnesses or test equipment, but knows the airplane goes to APC.

When I talked to him about glass, he forewarned that the cost of the installation could equal the cost of the equipment. I'm curious if autopilots are the same.

[paul.j]

So, are there 50 Stec owners that would be interested in the 3100?