Over Pond - Pacific Ocean

Paul Sharp · #1 02-28-10, 04:47 PM

Anyone have experience, or can recommend someone who does, with flying to Australia area? Routes, islands in between, ferry tanks installation?

I'm wondering how it is done, or if you just give up and ship the aircraft over there?

And does your Garmin 430 need a diff. database? And how about the 396 VFR model I have in the aircraft?

Skymaster337B · #2 02-28-10, 08:46 PM

There's nothing cheaper than crating and shipping a Skymaster; compared to the cost of fuel, ferry tank installation, HF radio installation, insurance, landing fees, security fees, etc. I'm not even sure there's any 100LL West of the Hawaii Island chain any more. Although, such a flight would be an adventure. However, just because you can do something doesn't always mean it should be done.

I've looked at this several times myself for a retirement in Thailand. Each time I come to the same conclusion...ship it.

Ernie Martin · #3 03-01-10, 12:18 AM

I'm not so sure, given what we now know about safely separating the wings from the fuselage.

I think that disassembling, crating, shipping, and re-assembling a Skymaster is likely to cost somewhere between:

a) the cost of the wing-fuselage attach point SID, and

b) the cost of all the SIDs.

I don't know the numbers, but my instant impression is that it may be close, perhaps cheaper to fly it, especially if the proper steps are taken at the disassembly and reassembly to ensure that no damage is done to the wing-fuselage attachments.

Ernie

Paul Sharp · #4 03-01-10, 01:09 AM

What if the aircraft is kept registered in the U.S.? Would that mean that the SIDs may not need to be complied with?

Ernie Martin · #5 03-01-10, 10:05 AM

Paul, I don't know the answer to that (although I think not, or everyone would keep US registry to avoid SBs and SIDs), my point was solely one of cost. The cost of the SIDs is not in doing the "inspections", it's the disassembly/reassembly required to expose the areas needing inspection. And now that we know the cost of doing it safely, my gut tells me that those costs (plus crating and shipping) may well exceed the costs of ferrying the aircraft.

Ernie

Dave Underwood · #6 03-01-10, 10:15 AM

There are a couple of folks in Australia who do that ferry on a regular basis. I recall there was a recent article in AOPA about on fellow who did it a lot. The article was about doing it in a C182 and having the engine quit and his rescue.

There have been several earth rounders recently and they did have to ship in their own 100LL for the stretch between Turkey and China as I recall.

I have done the initial planning to fly around the Pacific and spend a bit of time touring Australia and New Zealand and it looks do-able if you add extra tanks in case you do have to tanker fuel.

The US to Australia routing is to Hawaii, Christmas Island, Samoa, Fiji etc. with the Leg to Hilo in Hawaii being 2,025 nm. That is a long time.

All those various places in teh Pacific likely have flying clubs so you could check availability of 100LL.

It would be a great trip.

Dave

Skymaster337B · #7 03-02-10, 04:14 AM

Christmas Island is West of Australia, so I'm not sure the routing is Hawaii to Christmas Island. The problem is 100LL West of Hawaii...but plenty of H2O.

Personally, the safest way is Alaska, Russia, Japan, Philippines, Indonesia, Australia. But like I said before...you'll need to pay fees unimaginable in the Western world (and bribes too along the way)...and did I mention no 100LL in most of these places past Alaska. Sure there might be 100LL at a very few select places in Japan and the Philippines, but you'll need more than there are stops available.

To answer the question about the N number...the answer is you need an FAA annual to fly that aircraft anywhere in the world, under ICAO. For example, in the UK it is very expensive to own an airplane; so, about half of the general aviation fleet in the UK have N numbers instead of the UK's registration....then FAA registration rules apply, and is cheaper to maintain. I've seen it when I lived in the UK.

Dave Underwood · #8 03-02-10, 06:29 AM

A different Christmas Island, part of the Line Islands, north east of Australia. It is the first inhabited land with an airport south of Hawaii, just north of the equator. It is also called Kiritimati.

To comment on N-reg in Europe, there are more and more going on the N-reg, but the Europeans are trying to make that more difficult. On the G-reg (UK), even a minor change to anything costs about $5 k in fees and inspections as they seem to want to treat everything as major mod. All UK registered aircraft have to comply with the SID's and they treat a Service Bulletins like an AD and make many mandatory. No such thing as Part 91 and owner's discretion over here unless you are on the N-register.

Dave

Paul Sharp · #9 03-02-10, 09:42 AM

Is there any island between the west coast and Hawaii?

337B, for those "N" registered planes in the UK, would they be able to skip the SIDs then (assuming still Part 91 N registration)?

Dave Underwood · #10 03-02-10, 11:37 AM

No, just lots of water and about 2100 nm between the west coast and Hilo.

The N-reg in the UK follow the USA rules so if they are part 91, nothing is really mandatory.

Dave

Dave Underwood · #11 03-02-10, 11:40 AM

By memory, and as an additional thought, all the O-2's that went to S.E. Asia were flown over via Hawaii.

Ed Coffman · #12 03-02-10, 11:46 AM

I recommend Southern Cross Aviation in Ft. Lauderdale if you want someone to ferry it. He has done hundreds of ferrys. If you want it done right, get a professional. Remember, adventure is the result of poor planning.

best,

Ed
________
DRUG TEST KIT

Paul Sharp · #13 03-02-10, 05:52 PM

OK - Thanks to all for their excellent input.

Skymaster337B · #14 03-03-10, 12:26 AM

A small point of order. The O-2's did fly across to Nam...via Hawaii. However, that was 40+ years ago when the airplanes were new. Also, it is my understanding a C-130 led the way across the ocean for them seeking out good weather and winds, as well as a search and rescue platform. They landed at military facilities across the island chain such as Midway, Wake, Guam, Clark AFB PI, etc...infrastructure that I don't believe is still there with 100LL just waiting for the modern day adventurer to land in a Cessna. Call me silly, but my money is on shipping it.

Roger · #15 03-03-10, 11:33 AM

I had heard in the past soemwhere that the 0-2's were ferried across the pond on one engine. THis seems to speak to that point. With 150 gal, at 130Kts, you get about 1800NM on one fill up, and always have an extra engine to spare

Of course you're going to be sitting for 13 hours.

http://www2.hurlburt.af.mil/library/...et.asp?id=3432

The O-2 could remain airborne for about four hours using both engines and seven hours on one engine by switching fuel tanks. It had a top speed of 205 mph and a ferry range of 1,400 miles, but with an 830-pound payload, the range was 770 miles. The aircraft had dual controls with the pilot and co-pilot seated side-by-side. In 1970, production ended after 546 O-2s had been built.