Proper Instruction

[Francisco]

I was curious as to a student pilot with 300 Hours on Single engine land(that is me) trancitioning to a 336, what kind of istruction is espected from the instructor? I don't get Pre flight or post flight Breifing. No sillabus is followed. time to change.

[rick bell]

it's only an opnion; i would go to a medium to large flight school, in no complex time (a 210 is real simular), get a sign off then move on to a convential twin training (get a me) then move to the 336/337 and ifr training. it is a little expensice maybe 3500 to 5000k; but you will be well trained and most likely not hurt anybody if after it all you stay current (most everyone's problem).
most larger flight schools (25-100 students) are a little more structured; however there are many great independent cfi, it just takes a little more effort to find them.

[WebMaster]

change instructors

[kevin]

Francisco,

You already own a 336, correct? If so, I think you can do your training in your own aircraft. When you say you are a student pilot, do you mean you do not have your private license yet? If you have 300 hours and no license yet, that is unusual, so I just wanted to make sure I understand.

I agree with Larry, you should be following a lesson plan, even if it is informal, you should know where you are in the progression toward where you want to go, what the next steps are, etc. And you definitely should be getting a pre and postflight briefing each time. To not get this is the mark of a very poor instructor.

Ask around at the airport. Good instructors have a reputation for being good, and if you don't get what you want from the next one, then change again. I got very poor instruction from my first instructor, zero to solo, and changed instructors right after. My second instructor was excellent. Through the years, I have seen everything from horrid to superb.

Good luck,

Kevin

[Francisco]

Kevin, I do have my private Single engine land certificate, How ever I consider miself a Student in the 336 since I have not yet got the centerline trust rating.

Thanks for averyone's imput. The hard part is geting someone (an Instructor) who is centerline trust able.


Francisco

[OSCARDEUCE]

Francisco,
I was a 160 hour c-172 pilot. I bought an O2-A and found a competent IP. I took my ME in the O2-A. I am centerline thrust limited, but very comfy in the O2-A. I am working on my IFR and Commercial ratings. CLT IP's are getting hard to find.
Tom

[Francisco]

what broug me to asking the question "Proper Instruction" was as follow: The evening started with us taking off 1/2 hour before sunset. As we were flying, I noticed the giro horizon was reciding' I mentioned to the instructor and he say don't worry. We flew to a nearby airport to fuel up. The minute we arrived at the self serve pump, he departed the plane and went into the FBO to talk to the "prity ladies". I tried to use the pump and I could not get it to work, so yes I was Frustrated after 3 atemts. I thoug if he (my instructor)was here he could tell me how this pump works, after all this was my first time pumping. I walked a long way to the FBO, and expressed my opinion that he should not have left me and that it was getting dark. the FBO attendant help and I fueled the plane.
It was something simple the pum neded to be turn on on the back of the pump... A first timer....would not have figured it out.

when we got on the way it was prety dark (dusk) climing to 4000 (to go practice acelerated stalls) I noticed a layer forming bellow us the visibility was bad, and I though that - it being after sunset, a layer forming below us, the giro estabalizer Reciding, visibility bad, and my instructor wants me to go do stalls?.... I personaly did not felt confortable at all.... and I would have learn litle from him instructing me that night. When I say "hei! there is a layer forming below us", he say, "dont' worry". I say I worry! And told him that I wanted to return to the airport. he did not like me telling him that.
and got upset....saying, "go ahead if that is what you want to do".
I had to do a 360 degree coordinated spiral to get below the cloud layer and headed for the airport.
After I landed we had a long talk.... He Asked me "Do you think I am going to endanger your and my life if I tell you it is OK to keep fliying under thouse conditions"?

I responded that to me it was a dengerous condition. he responded that to the west there was clear airpace with no clouds.
I say I did not fill confortable.

So we parted ways.

Did I over reacted?

Any Body care to coment.

[OSCARDEUCE]

Go with your comfort. It will change with time and experience. You should push yourself to some extent to learn more, while knowing your personal limitations.
For example, I was flying an airshow with another more experienced pilot, we did not do things that I was uncomfortable with, althought I knew he was able to do them. On the other hand flying home with my instructor we met IFR conditions. I had never flown in true IFR, only under the hood. He has 20,000 hours in 40 years of flying. The experience I gained was invaluable. I will be the first to say that I have alot to learn, and I enjoy learning it.
Tom

[kevin]

Francisco,

In my opinion, a good instructor should realize that if you are uncomfortable enough to speak up about a situation, it does not make any difference if the situation was actually safe, you would not have learned anything due to the stress you would create for yourself. He should have just cheerfully helped you get the airplane back home, and your lesson could continue another day.

I can't say what the case is with this particular instructor, but I can say that I have several times in my life found that an instructor I was to fly with, or (worse) was flying with, had a much higher risk tolorance than I (that is the most polite way I can put it), and I have had to take command of the situation (as you did) and return to base. A very important rule (to me) is that it is better to be on the ground wishing you were flying than flying wishing you were on the ground.

(The most extreme example of this happened during my helicopter training. The instructor got so wrapped up in teaching me that I had to physically overpower him to push the collective down during an autorotation, because the rotor RPM was getting dangerously low. After I did it, he got very quiet all of sudden, and let me finish the auto to without a word. Later he made it clear that he was grateful to me for saving our everlovin' lives, and that he had not scared himself that badly in some time. He was a great instructor, and I finished my training with him. Everybody has brain lock once in a while.)

I think you did exactly the right thing. Beside, you are paying him, so if you are not getting what you expect, you would be a fool to keep paying.

It is true that one of the functions of an instructor is to take you outside of your comfort zone (teaching you stalls if you are afraid of them, or to fly in truly crappy IFR weather, might be a couple of examples). But you have to have a relationship with the instructor which has inspired you to be confident in their skills and judgement. It sounds like you were not confident in your instructor's judgement, and you may well have been right. Whether you were or not, the relationship is clearly not there, and not developing. Find another instructor.

By the way, you mentioned how difficult it is to find a center line thrust experienced instructor. While CLT experience is quite desirable, an instructor with a good amount of multi-engine instruction time, and a fair amount of time in a C182 or C210 would probably be able to teach you 90% of what you need to know. There are systems tricks to learn (like the fuel system information on Ernie Martin's web site), but you could consider flying in an experienced 337 instructor from further away to polish your skills after you get the basics done with a non-337 instructor.

A 337 guy would be best, but unfortunately the best one I know is here in Oregon, not much help to you...

Hang in there and find someone to teach you that you enjoy your time with. The whole thing is too expensive to be anything other than nearly all fun...

My two cents.

Kevin