Control Vision users

[SteveG]

Gentlemen: Another recent thread has Kevin & Jim discussing the use of Control Vison products. As a new user of this technology I would be interested in corresponding with others using this moving map product. Especially those of you who have significant experience in its operation, hence the start of a new thread.
I purchased the AnywhereMap, PocketPlates and XM Weather software along with a Motion LS800 tablet computer and the necessary XM and GPS receivers at the Oshkosh show last July. My primary reason was to display the XM weather products and have an EFB for approach plates. The display of low enroute and sectional data seemed like a nice additional feature. Unfoutunately I have yet to conduct a x-country flight with any significant reliance on this system. It took over a month to receive the system from Control Vision and a couple of weeks to inch along the software learning curve. The system was delivered without any internet security software so another week went by researching and installing Norton IS2008 allowing data updates. The hardware fits in the acft. nicely with the power cube and the XM receiver tucked into the starboard side pocket and the tablet mounted between the control yoke handles like it was a custom design. On the first flight however the weather display froze after a couple of minutes and never updated again. I have since installed the latest software release and so far it seems the programers have that issue resolved. The other software glitch is that the display of airspace restrictions highlighted by reference to flight altitude does not consistantly work properly. There is no mention on the CV website of any near term fix for this bug. Additionally, accuracy of depicted airspace data seems to be questionable. AOPA had to apply some heat when, for example, the new Phoenix Bravo went into effect and CV's 56 day update didn't portray the change. The most irritating part is that the CV website recently displayed, in bold red letters, that they were aware of all these issues but that it was the user's problem to verify all navigational data. As if to say that their product was only an interesting desktop game but if you actually wanted to go flying you're on your own to have gov't produced data aboard.
Bottom line is I just don't trust the product yet, if ever. To think that one is going to constantly verify an EFB display against current paper charts defeats the whole purpose, adding yet another layer of complexity rather than simplifying SPIFR/VFR navigation. Does anyone really spend some 4K on hardware & software and commit to some 8C/yr for data maintenance only to have outdated or incomplete information? The system looks like it may function OK for my primary intent (weather & plates) but so far the moving map display has been somewhat disappointing.
I'd be most interested in reading an expanded discussion of other users experiences, good or bad, and keeping this thread going as a forum for continuing operational questions. Particularly in that the CV forums seem to have very little to offer. Some on that site have even complained that corporate policy is to delete any uncomplimentary discussion but I don't know why when you cannot access the website forums until after you have already purchased the product.
Happy flying, Steve G.

p.s. - It seems that when trying to enter a flight plan the program does not recognize V-airways. One has to enter every fix along the entire route rather than just the flight plan route segments. Is this correct?

[Ernie Martin]

Among the many Skymaster owner/pilots who use this forum, there are at least three women: Beth Fiala, Mary Lightfine and Jenny Stack. I think that both Beth and Jenny are the principal flyers of their aircraft and have IFR tickets. If any of you ladies can help Steve with any of these issues, please feel free to contribute.

Ernie

Steve:

I have used CV on a PDA for more than 4 years. It has saved my bacon on more than one occasion. With that said, the first entire year I used the system was a nightmare. However, that was because I was using a Sat Phone for down loads, and it was VERY unreliable, particularly in . . . wait for the punch line . . . bad weather! What brain surgeon came up with that plan?

Okay, so they switched out the Sat Phone for the wx box, and I have had some pretty good success with it, after I learned all of the tricks to keep the software happy, e.g., sometimes the wx file gets corrupted, and you have to shut down the software, go into file explorer, and delete the dat wx file, reboot the PDA, and then start the software again. It's a hassle, but it eliminated 90% of my problems. The only other problems I had were related to the wx system requiring you to initiate the connection again. This is unrelated to CV, and was happening to all systems using the wx sattelite system (e.g., Garmin also).

You are correct that there have been a rash of programming glitches in the operating system the past few months that are, at a minimum, annoying. Particularly, as you say, when they try to turn a blind eye as to reliability of their own system. I was unaware that the antique fly-in airspace breach was CV related. That's very interesting.

I spent less than half of what you did on my system. I would have been extremely peeved the first year if I had. Since then, I've learned to test the unit out the day before a long trip just to be safe because of the problems I've experienced in the past.

So, my conclusion? It's a pretty good system and a pretty complete package for the price (once you get the bugs worked out and learn shortcuts to troubleshoot). If it weren't for the pocket plates, I would have thrown it out the window long ago in exchange for a Garmin 496. I'm guessing that's what the Garmin 596 is going to be, a 496 with plates, but that's my speculation. If that is what Garmin does, I would advise buying the Garmin over the CV because of Garmin's reliability. However, that's not to say that Garmin has not had their own share of problems with the 396 and 496 wx system as well, just not as many.

Regarding Victor Airways, you are correct, it does not recognize them. However, I've never minded it much, because I always find out what my waypoints are for a trip anyway by using any of the available free on-line flight planning programs, like AOPA or Duats, printing them out and carrying with me. The only time it's a hassle is when ATC gives you an amendment and it's difficult to find in the charts 4 hours into a trip! So yes, it's more trouble to program a long flightplan using airways, but . . . it kind of is what it is.

Hope I didn't muddy the waters more!
________
LovelyWendie

[SteveG]

Keven, Thanks for the "on topic" response. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one to have experienced difficulty with this product. At the risk of seeming thin-skinned, I don't know why our esteemed webmaster finds it necessary to take a pot shot at me each time I figuratively put pen to paper in this forum but having published the slap I presume that he will publish the rebuttal. Having met and in fact dined with Jenny and Mary on seperate occasions I know them to be intelligent and educated women who I hope would know that the use of the salutation "gentlemen" is not a sexist slight but rather a generic, gender inclusive greeting used when the writer does not know the identity of the recipient. The Gregg Reference Manual, 6th Edition, a universally recognized bible on business writing style states: "for an organization composed of both men and women the salutation most commonly used is "gentlemen:". The politically correct thought police (policepersons?) may wish to revise the language to conform to their Newspeak preferences but I do not wish to participate. I would hope that further postings to this thread might return to the topic rather than chastise previous participants on their writing style. Happy trails to all, Steve G.

[Ernie Martin]

I stand corrected.

Ernie

[Dave Underwood]

Steve, I really liked your reply. I use Gentlemen all the time and have had the PC element suggest I was wrong to do so. Now I have the answer.

On topic, the comments on CV are interesting. As someone who likes technology and it's application to flying, I can appreciate your experience and frustrations. Can you please keep us up to date with your experiences.

I am also looking at adding the Garmin GDL box to my system. Does anyone have any real life experience with the box and its operation they would like to share?

There appears to be a number of other folks offering Nexrad & GPS on tablets. There are wiring and power issues along with the operational challenges I know, but being able to also have all the plates, Nexrad images and other stuff on the tablet is pretty neat. Does anyone have any real world experience using those systems they would share with us all?

Blue skies - Dave

[WebMaster]

Originally posted by SteveG
Keven, Thanks for the "on topic" response. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one to have experienced difficulty with this product. At the risk of seeming thin-skinned, I don't know why our esteemed webmaster finds it necessary to take a pot shot at me each time I figuratively put pen to paper in this forum but having published the slap I presume that he will publish the rebuttal. Having met and in fact dined with Jenny and Mary on seperate occasions I know them to be intelligent and educated women who I hope would know that the use of the salutation "gentlemen" is not a sexist slight but rather a generic, gender inclusive greeting used when the writer does not know the identity of the recipient. The Gregg Reference Manual, 6th Edition, a universally recognized bible on business writing style states: "for an organization composed of both men and women the salutation most commonly used is "gentlemen:". The politically correct thought police (policepersons?) may wish to revise the language to conform to their Newspeak preferences but I do not wish to participate. I would hope that further postings to this thread might return to the topic rather than chastise previous participants on their writing style. Happy trails to all, Steve G.

Thank you for your erudite and concise comments. I have a tablet GPS, the Av-Map, and am thoroughly happy with it. I like the large screen format, the ability to glance at it, and know where I am. Like many others, the options of national Nexrad is intriniscally important for any upgrade. Like many others, I have looked at the CV units. There are numerous reviews of this kind of software in Aviation Consumer, yet I do not remember any of them pointing out the issues you raise here.
BTW, I am the other administrator, and the webmaster.

[SteveG]

WHO'RE YA CALL'IN ERUDITE!! Oh....wait....I guess that's complimentary. Well that's different. Never mind. Thanks Dave & Larry for your kind thoughts. Larry, I apologize for the erroneous use of titles. My perception of your organizational chart used administrator and webmaster interchangeably. Regardless of title I do appreciate the time and effort both you and Ernie invest in keeping this site up and running.
I fear my original post may be being perceived as more derogatory of CV's product than I had intended. There really are some rather magical things going on in those boxes, its just that I do not believe it is quite living up to all it was advertised to be, all I had expected it to be and all I believe it could be. With the FAA's approval of EFB's as primary data and CV's statement in its literature that the Anywhere Map System is "a complete navigation system that does everything a certified system can do" I believed I was purchasing the functional equivalent of paper sectional & enroute charts. Although the database is updated on the same cycle as the paper charts, outdated and/or missing data renders the basemap unreliable. Without reliable basic data all the other nice features go for naught. Raster images of the actual gov't publications used as the basemap would go a long way in improving the product. Superimposing weather on the approach plates would also be helpful. I do not know of any moving map software that is capable of doing so however. The Voyager product has a chart viewer but it opens in a seperate window, not as the basemap. The Voyager product is otherwise similar, in some respects such as flight planning even more capable but their GUI seemed more difficult to navigate. Even their sales staff was oftentimes confused when trying to answer questions outside of their practiced presentations and they did not demonstrate the product on the actual display devices to be used but rather on a large flat screen computer monitor which left one suspicious of the screen display in actual use. It won't be long before someone will have the capability to toggle between a sectional map plan view and a Google Earth type fly over display with the altitude and direction synched to the GPS something like what VistaNav is doing. So many toys, so little time and money.
So all in all I'm not despondent, just mildly disappointed. I'm hoping the product will quickly improve in as much as there are several other players using this same platform who would like a piece of this market and will likely keep the competitive pressure on. If CV does not keep up they will be history in short order.
Smooth rides and tailwinds, Steve G.

[N6030X]

I've flown with Garmin 196, AirGator NavAir, and now with AnywhereMap WX. That's the best one I've seen so far. Here's what you've gotta remember:

1. This entire technology is only a few years old. Control Vision is a small company with limited resources and has pulled off an incredible coup to be competing head-to-head with Garmin's resources.

2. We're not quite at the point yet where you can do like you would in your car and just hop in for a 1000 mile trip without any planning. Any planning you do for a cross country should use all available resources to verify special airspace, weather, NOTAMs, fuel stops, etc. To rely on the little device in the cockpit trying to retrieve data from a an XM Radio satellite is still a little iffy. It's pretty reliable, but not reliable enough for FAA certification, so don't put yourself in the situation of having no alternatives.

Having said that, I flew 200 hours VFR in 9 months and flew in weather that would have grounded me just a few years ago. This class of devices is completely revolutionary, and any temporary glitches should be considered growing pains.

BTW, my personal evaluation is that the AnywhereMap "touchscreen" style of system is easier to use in smooth air, where the Garmin "cursor" style navigation is easier to use in turbulence.

[skymaster]

for 1000 bucks kick ass waas approaches weather and approach plates. i have not opened a paper map. its a digital revolution for the working man. the wires suck but the price is right. i bought mine on e bay from a guy who did not get it. J