Folks, we need to fortify the front against Garmin (Autopilot)

[YankeeClipper]

As I noted in my thread yesterday, the older S-Tecs are no longer an option, and the 55x is 35k all in. If you don’t have a G5, GI-275, etc to feed the 55x, it’s 46k with a G5 added. I’m sure that’s easier for some than others, but file me under “others” … too many other irons in the fire to allocate something like that for a very long time. Sadly, without change to the market, we know this will only get worse.

For those of you with a 400A, you still have options—for now. AP Central warned me yesterday that those days are numbered, though that could mean 1 year, or 5–they wouldn’t put a number on it. That aside, matching components are becoming scarce. Add another point in Genesys’ favor.

Either way, our aircraft are quickly being cornered into a single-solution market for APs, period … unless you want to take your odds on a field inspection. This means Genesys can quite comfortably set the price as they please. I myself am going to look again to the Garmin threads here an ensure that I’ve put an up-to-date bid in for my part.

I would strongly suggest that we all do, and nudge our fellow owners who haven’t checked in here in a while to do the same.

[Learjetter]

Autopilot data points worth repeating: in the history of the FAA, there has never been a field approval for changing a factory autopilot or adding an autopilot on a civil certificated aircraft.

I’ve spoken to the head autopilot guy at Garmin a couple times, and he’s the one that told me the above. He also tells me they will eventually borrow someone’s 337 for a year and run the STC on either the 500 or 600 autopilot. No promise of when. I offered my airplane and offered to pay for the equipment (got the idea from patrol pilot!) but was told to go sign up online. And wait.

All that said…I have heard tell of an outfit in Florida that can do the Engineering to show how to connect a 400 or 400A autopilot to modern Garmin glass PFD. If one paid for that, then that data becomes the approved data and basis to approve connecting the STC’d glass displays to a factory autopilot not covered by the STC. In other words…you get field approval for the connection diagrams, and hook it up. I hear it works just fine. I haven’t contacted that guy yet, but will if I can’t get my AP fully functional.

[paul.j]

For those of us that have STec 55X, wouldn't it be simpler for them to work out the upgrade for the 3100? I am probably over simplifying......

[GAdams]

We've been talking about autopilots on this site for years now. I believe we do not have enough numbers for an autopilot manufacturer to be interested in providing an economic solution nor digital autopilot offering for us. But take a look at what's happening. Garmin wants to install complete packages mainly to the OEMs but will do a complete package for somebody with deep pockets. Genesys by definition is marketing to the aftermarket. The 3100 is a big success and it is replacing a large amount of the 55x. What's happening to those units? Genesys I heard makes the 55X owner trade in their autopilot on the 3100. The 55X is piling up on the floor of Genesys. You can't buy one from eBay and install it without an STC from Genesys. Maybe go to the factory and suggest they remanufacture the 55X and sell them to the Skymaster community for a deep discount. With the STC. As if we were helping them out with the "Big Problem" they are having with all those 55Xs piling up. Worth a shot. The dealer will have to be involved and will want some say in the installation in order to sign off the STC. But a Mom and Pop, decent autopilot installer, might answer the call for the actual labor for the install. Not exactly a straight path but a possibility.

[patrolpilot]

Been through all of this and offered up my airplane to both Garmin (600) and Genesys (3100), along with all costs. They are not the least interested in the Skymaster. I get it, though. Have you looked at the average Mixer? In my travels across the country, I see 337s on various ramps, and almost all encounters are examples are spent airframes. Sure the pretty ones are in hangars and cared for, but I am willing to bet the majority are at their end. Not good. Remember that those of us represented here have a very unusual interest in an airplane that is a 43-year-old airplane at best.

I've been thinking the same as GAdams as of late; about all those 55 that have been traded in.

For me, right now, my 400A is still great. When I was last at APC, I bought a spare G-519-A Attitude Indicator and had APC calibrate it to my airplane. Sure enough, it failed earlier this year. I slipped it into the panel, and my autopilot never knew something had changed. I plan to schedule another visit to APC this year to ensure everything looks good.

My airplane is in the shop right now with everything out of it. An Aspen 2500 Evolution Pro system is being installed. I decided to stick with my two 430Ws as they went through the Garmin refurbishing two years ago. The AI does have to remain in the panel, but there is very little between the panel and the firewall now. The airplane is scheduled to be out of the shop in 20 days. The picture is back from mid-December.



The 400A needs the AI pitch and roll, but the Aspen system can handle all navigation inputs from there.

This is probably it for me; I'm 69 and will ride the airframe out from here. The simplest of parts could end an airplane. I'm constantly chasing components, it seems. Also, it is getting tough to find someone who can work on the airplane without paying to train them as they gain experience. Most shops I've contacted are not interested in the work.

[YankeeClipper]

Just spoke with Genesys about this. The reason they have discontinued the 30/40/50 systems is simply that they can't get parts orders filled. As reported, they still have orders from early '22 that are unfulfilled, with no known ETA.

This also meant, as the rep confirmed, that if your current 30/40/50 has an issue, and it requires a component for which they no longer have stock, you may be looking at an AP replacement.

I intend to call about getting an STC for the 3100s to put in my part for encouragement on that front.

[Cglencross]

I emailed Max Unruh in March 2022.

Coles Notes of Conversation:

1. Planning on doing the GFC 500, will require a GI-275
2. Timing was estimated in little over 1 year from March 2022
3. They would be looking at the model that is the heaviest from the factory (or with 5% of heaviest gross weight) and turbocharged.

I will follow up with him and see where they are at. Another group to pressure is the Dynon Certified guys. They have already done it with a twin (piper seneca) so all is not lost.

Chris

[Cglencross]

Quick update...as Max gets back to you faster than anyone I've ever seen....

Max is no longer working with autopilots, new guy still needs to be hired and he will make an introduction.

I emailed him back with this:
"Thanks max!

You may want to also tell the new guy that the 337 community is starting to freak out. There are currently no suitable autopilots for it has as even the 55x is not shipping right now.

The first company with an approved AP will win the entire fleet just about as we are stuck with the old navomatics and there are a lot of people who want to upgrade now."

For which he replied and said that was good feedback and will be used in decision making going forward.

Chris

[YankeeClipper]

Originally Posted by Cglencross

Quick update...as Max gets back to you faster than anyone I've ever seen....

Max is no longer working with autopilots, new guy still needs to be hired and he will make an introduction.

I emailed him back with this:
"Thanks max!

You may want to also tell the new guy that the 337 community is starting to freak out. There are currently no suitable autopilots for it has as even the 55x is not shipping right now.

The first company with an approved AP will win the entire fleet just about as we are stuck with the old navomatics and there are a lot of people who want to upgrade now."

For which he replied and said that was good feedback and will be used in decision making going forward.

Chris

I agree with all of the above points.

I failed to mention that Genesys pointed out the same to me with regard to the 55x: yes it’s still certified, but no, they can’t get production of that either. Also, 40k.

[wslade2]

So basically, there is no shippable autopilot. Either you have something already in place and can make it work…or wait and hope

[Dr.Dan]

Originally Posted by Cglencross

I emailed Max Unruh in March 2022.

Coles Notes of Conversation:

1. Planning on doing the GFC 500, will require a GI-275
2. Timing was estimated in little over 1 year from March 2022
3. They would be looking at the model that is the heaviest from the factory (or with 5% of heaviest gross weight) and turbocharged.

I will follow up with him and see where they are at. Another group to pressure is the Dynon Certified guys. They have already done it with a twin (piper seneca) so all is not lost.

Chris

I have offered by T337G (pressurized) for the gfc 500.
GI275 x2
GTN 750 XI

I haven't heard anything back.

DD

[n86121]

When I was a kid I used to design medical diagnostic tech robotics.
I was admittedly, a weird kid.

The feedback tasks of any autopilot are really very simple.

This clever gadget would probably work just fine on a 337.

As a portable device, no FAA involvement.
'Clamp and go'

My Ye Olde Navomatic gets its course correction off the CDI.
I just upgraded my panel to Avidyne fantasy suite w new King CDI.
KI 209 I think?

The CDI gets signals from IFR GPS 550 AND and provides left right guidance to AP.
Including GPSSS, which is merely anticipating turns over a fix, instead of hard correction.

Doesn't drive AP elevator, but that's trivial anyway.
Trim for level flight, engage AP. Done.
Little AP head by right knee can climb / descend, hold heading, intercept/track, hold altitude, etc.

The portable AP looks like $3K.
https://www.portapilot.com/product-page/portapilot-vnav

Plus another $100 to supply power from 24 volts
https://www.portapilot.com/product-p...ng-power-cable

I four AP is dead and no longer supported,
and you really need one, to hold heading, altitude and track course,
for $3k I'd give the portable a try and see how it does.

If its terrible I'm sure they'd take it back.
My guess is it would work just fine.

It's just some some stable convergent (not divergent) feedback systems after all.

Report back to us if you do.

[wslade2]

Darn interesting

https://www.portapilot.com/media

[mshac]

It is interesting, and not a bad idea at all, but I bet it has "FOR VFR USE ONLY" stamped prominently in the manual somewhere!
EDIT: They go even farther - " LIMITED TO DAY VFR CONDITIONS, OVER SPARSELY POPULATED AREAS, AT LEAST 5 MILES FROM AN AIRPORT"

I want one of those inflatable autopilots like they had on Airplane! The Movie.

Pretty soon you'll be able to say "Alexa, fly me home" LOL

[patrolpilot]

PortaPilot seems a reach. My airplane isn't that tough to fly, even great distances.