Garmin GNC 300XL IFR/COM GPS

Anyone heard or experienced anything good, bad, or indifferent about this enroute and approach certified GPS? I really need a new com radio also, so this seems like it could work out pretty well for me if it's received decent reviews.
Keven
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APPLEBEES GIFT CARDS

[Jim Rainer]

Don't know about the Garmin 300, but I can highly reccomend the Apollo GX60 - IFR enroute, terminal and approach approved with an excellent com, small moving map and takes little stack space

[Alan Williams]

Had one in my last aircraft. Excellent com radio and nav receiver. Had no problems with either and would characterize them as being strong equipment.
Have a 430 now and found the 300xl slightly easier to understand and then operate the various pages and groups.
Did not use the 300 for approaches so cannot really compare for you but I'm sure others can.

[SkyKing]

Kevin,

With regard to the Garmin GNC-300XL GPS, I note that JA Air Center has factory overhauled units for $2595, includes tray, install kit, gps antenna, and the unit, plus a 120 day warranty. Doesn't seem too bad a price considering the unit also has the 760 channel Com.

On the other hand, I see they also have the KLN-89B for $1,295, and it also includes the tray, install kit, GPS antenna, database, and receiver and a 120 day warranty. It seems to me the KLN-89B has the orange colored gas discharge display which would match the rest of the King Silver Crown stuff.

Wow... that last one is hard to beat, except no Com. Then there's the GPS295 with color for about $1,189 and in that case you could keep your current stack and just replace your Com if need be.

Curious which of your Com radios you are having difficulty with.

Hhmmm. So many choices... what's a guy to do!

SkyKing

[Bob Cook]

SK

beleive he is looking for enroute certifcation which eliminates the 295, however, I think it is one of the most fantastic GPS's ever built. I still have it around in the event all lights go out.

re 89B. I would still opt for an 89 or 90B (which i use). I have never had a raim failure and the DBase is easy to upload from a laptop. Just doesn't have the pretty "follow the yellow brick road" colorful screens.

fyi

bob

SkyKing:

Thanks for the info. You're right, I called JA Aircenter, not only is the reman unit price low, their install price for the unit is ridiculously low, and they install a ton of them. Seems like a good unit and deal from what I've read, but I don't know too many people who have them, so I was wondering if there was a reason that not too many people had them, if ya know what I mean. . . . Primary difference, other than color and size from the 430 is that it does not have localizer and glideslope included in the unit.

I already have a 295 and love it. However, Bob is right, I want a certified enroute and approach GPS, so the 295, while a great secondary source, isn't going to make me legal (damn lawyers).

Re my com, I've currently got a (single, uno, one) Michel MX 300 nav com. It ain't pretty, small, or fancy . . . but it does work, and I've (knock on wood) never had a problem with the thing. However, I only have one com and I want two (other than my handheld for emergencies). So the combo gps/com unit seems to fit the bill nicely.

Is there a comparable KLN out there that has a com in it?

Keven
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GM LS ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS

[Bob Cook]

Point to look out for.

You will need an interface to existing equipement such as HSI and autopilot (midwest makes one). Think that adds about 1k to the price of an installed certified unit.

The 430 has the switching built in if i am not mistaken which makes the 430 1k$ less <G>.

Resale you will get ur money out of the 430, not the case for the others.

cost of updating database is serious consideration including length of support and amount of data available for approaches.

If this is the case i would chose between king 89/90b or the 430. again add the interface and wiring costs. I figured it cost me 2k to get the 90b certified for enroute and approach, however, glad i did.

bob

[SkyKing]

Hey Bob,

You've confused me with the "89/90B" ... what's wrong with the KLN89B model, like the $1295 unit from JA AirCenter? Is the 89B not certifiable for IFR enroute or approach? What's an "89"?

I got an e-mail from Gregg at JA AirCenter regarding the KLN90A versus the KLN90B and he says, "The KLN 90A is enroute certifiable and the 90B is approach certifiable." Now, he didn't elaborate, but am I to understand that it's an "either" - "or" situation? I guess the question is, which of these is IFR certifiable for BOTH enroute and approach?

I see some KLN90A and 90B units for around $1K and my thought is to interface one or the other of these to an Argus 5000/CE or 7000/CE (surplus)... and then there are some Argus 3000 monochromes out there for around $500-$700, so there's a lot of choices.

In my case, I don't want to disturb my centerstack too much (Collins AMR350 Audio/Markers, KY-196A Com, KNS-80 RNAV/GS/DME, KX155 Nav-Com, Apollo 618TCA Loran, Collins ADF-650, Collins TDR-950 Xpndr). Also have a KCS-55A HSI, and STEC-50, but no FD. My STEC is installed where the 400 IFCS mode selector used to be and right above it is the ADF head, which could be moved to the right side and replaced with the Argus. With the color Argus, that'd make a nice installation... since I can't afford a 430!

I've already acquired a nice KLN88 Loran which I'm thinking of installing in place of the Apollo, and then piggy back it with a matching KLN90A or KLN90B, and then a switching/annunciator arrangment so that both Loran and GPS feed the HSI and an Argus. Eventually I'd like to replace the Collins ADF and Xpndr with later a King KR-87 and the King Xpndr, which I believe take up less panel space - at least the ADF unit is.

Anyway, Bob, maybe you can clarify on the KLN89B, versus the KLN90A and KLN90B... and yes, I know the latter two have a CRT's (something to be considered for longevity and trouble free service) whereas the KLN89B is, I believe, a gas discharge display?

SkyKing

[Bob Cook]

SK

Not really up in the differences. I was refering to th eKLN89 /90b meaning items of the same "ilk".

I know the 90B is both approach and enroute certified and the database is rather extensive. I have learned to operate it and find it quite effective with the 400 autopilot. works great coupled.

I think any of these are "great buys" considering the cost of these for a kingair a few years ago. I find it rock solid.

I prefered to stay with the King stack as I did not feel spending 30k to throw out some good radios was really worth it.

just my thoughts.

I find nexrad / echoflight worth every cent.

Bob

[stackj]

About three years ago I bought a KLN-90B and an NSD-360 through an Internet auction site. JA Air Center was the seller.

I found them most supportive. I called and asked them questions about the two pieces of equipment before placing a bid. (I didn't know much about either).

I was fortunate enough to win the bid for both items. I called JA Air Center several times for more information before letting a contract to my local avionics installer. I found JA most willing to help me in any way possible and I feel that their integrity is above reproach.

If you are buying your equipment from them, I believe you can bank on anything they tell you.

The database for the KLN-90B is not very inexpensive. You are not required to have a current database to use the unit for IFR navigation but YOU DO HAVE TO VERIFY THE DATA FOR EACH WAYPOINT YOU USE IN YOUR FLIGHT PLAN if you don't have a current database.

King has a good feature. When you buy an annual subscription (which includes 13 updates) you are allowed 18 (I believe) months to use it. (could be 15, but I'm prety sure it is 18). This allows you to not waste an update while your airplane is in the shop fot that one week annual that ends up lasting two months.

It is downloadable through the internet and very easy to install in the GPS receiver from your computer.

And yes, it is enroute AND approach certified. I THINK everything that is approach cetifiable is automatically enroute certified.

As for linking the GPS to the Argus 5000 or 7000, I think you need a separate database for that. I'm not aware of requirements for IFR certification, but I am pretty sure that the GPS can be used IFR even if the Argus is not certified. You may just have to keep in mind what id providing the primary navigation data.

[Bob Cook]

I like the 90b although it is not "state of the art". I agree with Stackj. The ease of downloading the database off the internet now makes it very easy to keep updated.
I use the altitude alterting option when connected to the alt encoder (really useful), the computer portion for computing winds, and also have it interfaced to the fuel flow for fuel computation to destination etc. The CRT is great and it does warn you with spec use airspace and class c and d airspace. It has all the wp for canada, bahamas, carribean, and the usa.

I have thought many times upgrading to the 430 but ..... can't justify it.

I saw one go on ebay for 1200 dollars a month back. I would look around and I am sure with all the upgrades you can find an 89 / 90 /90b or whatever at a good price. I do not think king will discontinue support for some time based on their history.

BTW I put a ICOM panel radio in a C150 and was very impressed (with the radio I mean).

Just a side note..

Bob

[Jim Rainer]

Don't forget the interface needed as mentioned above.

One other comment on the Apollo GX60 (no one has mentioned it but me.) It has a wonderful COM unit built-in like the Garmin 300 BUT buried deep in the pages of the STC is the fact that the COM is not IFR approved for primary IFR communication. I have a KX155 for my 2nd COM and when it is out of the airplane, I can't legally fly IFR using the GX60. I've never pursued the reason why with the UPS/Apollo folks but it's there. I have no idea if any other GPS/COM units have the same restriction on primary IFR COM use. I didn't know this until 3 years into using the unit but I would probably have bought it anyway.

Definitely something to check into.

[Burt Benson]

Gentlemen,

I fly with a KLN 89B and love it. It is simple to use and is enroute and approach certified. The 89 is not certifyable. The gas discharge display on the 89B does not pose any problems. If you want a pretty color display, go with the KLN 94.

Burt

Jim:

FYI: I saw an advertisment on an online avionics shop (like Eastern Avionics or JA Aircenter or one like those, sorry I can't remember which one) for a GX 60. Apparently, the first units out had a com that was NOT IFR certified like you discussed above. However, they now have a patch for those units that allows the com to be IFR certified. Also, the later GX 60s did not have that restriction. So, know that there is a "fix" for your com if you want one.

Keven
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Magic Flight Review

[Jim Rainer]

Keven,

I was not aware of a fix. Thanks for the information. I think I am going to have to send mine back for a display fix anyway, so will get it updated. Thanks again.

Jim