Owen Bell - Aviation Enterprises

[skymstr02]

Cessna uses/used the industry standard for aluminum, 2024-T3, and the standard for construction.
The engineers didn't overbuild it to accomodate future after market modifications that may come along, such as wing tip fuel tanks and extended wing tips. And they certainly did not over engineer the wing that an individual would exceed the structural limitations imposed by the said non factory approved modifications.
I'd like to know who has determined that Cessna used non conforming raw materials in its construction?

Dave

[stackj]

I'm not an avid supporter of Cessna's customer support, prices or attitude toward the small airplane owner - especially in regard to the aging fleet.

However, I think it is out of line to accuse them of using substandard materials on hearsay. In our litigeous society that could have far reaching negative implications.

I have not seen any evidence in my skymaster that the original construction used anything other than the standard accepted materials. By the way, it looks to me like a pretty solid airframe even though it has been flying for 43 years.

[N5ZX]

Everybody relax....

I did not say Cessna used inadequate materials when they built the bird 23 years ago.

I said that I had heard that Cessna didnt use the BEST material.

We all know that part of the process of engineering is to find the lowest priced material that will meet or exceed the requirement for the job. There is no evil or malice in doing that. Thats simple common sense and makes the plane affordable.

All I was saying is that there may be BETTER materials available to address the newly revealed areas in need of improvement....for a few planes.

I am not an engineer. I am barely a pilot. I am not second-guessing ANYONE or pointing fingers or accusations as anyone.

Thats all I meant.

Cole

[N5ZX]

.....Oh, and before anybody starts rattling their cages about me not blaming the mods....

I will point out, again, I ain't smart enough to "blame" any of the myriad factors in play.

Frankly, I don't really care who's "fault" it is.

I'm just kicking around ideas with much more knowledgable folks (yall) in hopes of finding potential corrective action.

It could be that all I can do is remove the mods. If that's the case, they'll be off like a prom dress.

However, if there is something that can be done which would allow me to SAFELY fly with my hoopty-toys....I'd kinda like to explore those options.

Make sense?

Cole

[stackj]

Cole,

I re-read my message and it sounded a little pointed. I apologize. I did not intend to be advesarial.

[hharney]

Cole

Take attention to the items you discovered with a good IA. Make corrective repairs based on good airframe practices. Fly the airplane within the limitations stated in the STC for the mod's.

If you have to do anything it would probably be remove the winglets. The NTSB may find that mixing STC's may be ................, but who knows. There are lots of Skymasters flying with extended wing tanks and lots with winglets but very few with both. Removing the winglets would be the least amount of pain.

Just some thoughts.

[N5ZX]

No doubt.
I have three a&p's (two are IA's) digging around in her.

They started today and the FAA Accident Investigator is already calling to see what they are finding. I have a hunch he may come take a look, himself.

I'm a teensy bit surprised Aviation Enterprises hasn't sent a rep to take a peek and get out ahead of this. Oh well, I offered.

Yeah, if I gotta choose, I'll lose the winglets and go with some "knots-2-u" tips

we shall see what tomorrow brings. As I said, wish me luck.

Cole

[rick bell]

why is owen bell not posting information? to me that would reduce all the
speculation and rumors. he may not have all the answers; but he is close to the
source. he needs to step up and communicate!

[hharney]

Cole
The only choices I know of are the factory tips or Horton Stol wing tips. The Horton tips are fiberglass and $1600 a pair. If you still have factory tips that would make the most sense until all the smoke clears.

Rick
Owen is working with the NTSB investigation and probably is best that he doesn't say anything until the smoke clears too.

[N5ZX]

It should also be noted that my extended tips and winglets were both installed by Owen, 10 years / 766 flight hours ago.

I told that to the FAA Investigator, but don't recall having mentioned it in any thread.

Admittedly, I fly like a rookie scaredy-cat cuz my boss likes smooth rides ( climb at 110, don't touch the gear under 500 agl in climb-out, break-check and gear d/l-green, try to avoid anything more than 10-degree banks, avoid anything more than light turbulance, avoid anything that registers on either of my radars, 500fpm decents, when I turn that's ALL I'm doing, I only fiddle with stuff when I'm wings level, GUMPS checks on approach AND on downwind AND on base AND on final, completely sterile cockpit under 1,000 AGL, and I'm FULLY configured BEFORE turning final. Yeah, flying with me is boring. But I already got my airplane crash merrit-badge and have no use for an oak-leaf cluster.

But I have no idea how the previous owner flew it....I've only been involved with it for the past 9 months and it's only been in my possession for the past 2 months.

Soooo..... Even with stacked mods and a decade of flying, it seems to have held together. And while there is some deformaty, it's minor enough to warrent further investigation and not merely write it off at a glance.

Owens shop has done a LOT of work to my plane. It's actually less of a "Cessna 337" and more of an "Aviation Enterprises 337". Again, much of the work pre-dates me, but we've had them do a LOT since we bought her.

Although Owen doesn't over emphasize PR at Aviation Enterprises, the workmanship and attention to detail demonstrated by his crew are commendable.

In short, I wouldn't be too hasty to question the value of what Aviation Enterprises does for our rarified fleet.

Anybody can have a problem....it's how they respond to the problem that reveals their character.

We'll see what happens.

Patiently waiting....

Cole

[rick bell]

Originally Posted by hharney

Cole
The only choices I know of are the factory tips or Horton Stol wing tips. The Horton tips are fiberglass and $1600 a pair. If you still have factory tips that would make the most sense until all the smoke clears.

Rick
Owen is working with the NTSB investigation and probably is best that he doesn't say anything until the smoke clears too.

that is fine; however he should have said so. it leaves very little creditability to have someone
else suggest this (not much more than a rumor). i have had his mods for many years and could not be more pleased. rick

[Roger]

I wonder if anyone knows if the european phantom 337 with the wing root problem that predicated the entire Cessna SID fiasco, had any tip or tank mods?