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Old 07-10-11, 02:17 PM
B2C2 B2C2 is offline
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Transition training requirements for 337

There may be an answer to this question somewhere on the site, but Ive searched around a lot and can't find one. I am interested in transitioning to a 337, I have my SEL and instrument ratings, a little complex and no ME time. I have spent a lot of time in Pipers and got my instrument rating in an SR20. I'm considering buying a 337 and getting my MER in that plane. I understand I will have a CLT restriction on my MER if I do this, and I don't care about that. My question is what do I need to look for in a flight instructor? Can I receive instruction from any MEI, or do I need to find an instructor with 337 time in order to do my training and take my check ride? I believe there may also be an insurance aspect to this question, as the instructor may be required to have 337 time for the insurance to be valid during the training period. Any help in answering these questions would be greatly appreciated. I'm also located in Livermore CA, so assuming a 337 specific instructor is required a pointer to someone nearby would be helpful. Thanks.
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Old 07-10-11, 03:23 PM
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Ernie Martin Ernie Martin is offline
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I think any MEI will do for the license part, although others here may want to correct me if I'm wrong.

I replied principally to make a different point: unless you are financing the purchase with a loan on the aircraft (as opposed to a line of credit or signature loan), give some consideration to NOT carrying insurance.

You will find that with your limited ME experience insurance will be quite expensive, and given the considerably lower prices on Skymasters, you might conclude that insurance has become disproportionately expensive compared to self-insuring (i.e., an approach where every year you put an amount equal to the premium in a savings account).

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Old 07-10-11, 09:34 PM
edasmus edasmus is offline
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There is nothing extraordinary about flying a naturally aspirated SkyMaster. If you are COMPLETELY comfortable in the SR20, then flying a naturally aspirated SkyMaster should prove fun and enjoyable. You will simply have two levers in your hands as oppossed to one and don't forget the landing gear. Insurance, as Ernie mentioned, will be pricey especially at your experience level but you either pay it or not. The choice is up to you.

When I started flying the Skymaster, the only multi time I had was what I got training for the rating in a Piper Seminol. So that number was 10. My total time was about 1500 with maybe 500 in high performance/complex. The Skymaster, in my opinion, is the perfect airplane to transition to mult-engine flying. It may very well be the perfect light twin in terms of aerodynamics. One has to start somewhere, the Skymaster is a great place to do it. I have over 600 hours in my SkyMaster now since beginning multi flying in 2003 and have no desire to fly anything else.

A MEI with Skymaster time would certainly be a plus but should not be a requirement. More important would be a competent one that you like. If the MEI does not have Skymaster experience, please, please, please make sure both of you know the systems backward and forward of the exact model you are flying. Model years differ alot. Pay extra attention to the fuel system and landing gear. Most of the sad record of Skymasters comes from lack of understanding of the fuel systems by unprepared pilots. Though the record for Skymasters compares similarly to other comparable twins, it should be better. The fuel systems have caught many pilots by surprise. Operate that and the rest of airplane as designed, and nothing but enjoyment will follow.

Good Luck!

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Old 07-12-11, 01:55 AM
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Skymaster337B Skymaster337B is offline
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And the correct answer is: Yes, a MEI must have 5 hours PIC time in a Skymaster in order to instruct in it. Reference is FAR 61.195.f.

"Training received in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift. A flight instructor may not give training required for the issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of multiengine airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift, as appropriate."
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Old 07-12-11, 02:45 AM
B2C2 B2C2 is offline
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Excellent. So I guess Im looking for an MEI with at least 5 hours of 337 time in the vicinity of Livermore CA. Any suggestions?
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Old 07-12-11, 11:14 PM
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hharney hharney is offline
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The insurance company will be the determining factor if the multi rated CFI(I) can instruct in the Skymaster. The tricky part is "Who is the PIC?" If you own the plane, you insure it and the CFI meets the OPW for type then the CFI can instruct in your airplane. The premium for the insurance will be extremely high if you are named on the policy.

Doing this in the 337 makes things a little harder because most CFI's don't have 337 time. If you were to find a 337 to rent and the CFI meets the insurance requirement then OK. It just gets really sticky trying to do this in the actual Skymaster.

Here is what I would do to get this rating out of the way in the cleanest fashion. Go get your multi rating in a normal twin engine aircraft. Compared to Skymasters these aircraft are offered at most any flight school. You will probably be flying a Seminole or a Duchess but there is no sticky stuff to worry about. In the long run you will be much better off having a standard multi certification rather than a limited CLT only. I can say this because I did just what you are planning. I got my multi in a Skymaster and had a limitation for 12 or 15 years. Did it limit me? Yes, I had some opportunities that presented themselves but I was not able to partake because of the limitation. Also all the hours that I logged with the limitation in place technically don't count as standard multi time. But if you have the standard multi and then fly the CLT it counts as standard multi. Go figure. Anyway, stuff changes in our lives and opportunities land in our laps, why limit yourself.

Just my $0.50

Just go get the rating and be done with it. Then you can comfortably find your Skymaster and be ready to go.
Herb R Harney
1968 337C

Flying the same Skymaster for 41 years
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Old 07-14-11, 12:46 AM
B2C2 B2C2 is offline
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I think this makes sense. I would like to maximize my time in type, but it does seem like this will be easier to pull together. Thanks for the advice.
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Old 07-14-11, 12:32 PM
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iswap iswap is offline
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I don't think the CLT restriction is issued anymore; you get a standard MEL even if you're getting the rating in a Skymaster.

I agree with the suggestion made above, i.e., get the MEL in a standard multi-engine airplane first for less aggravation. I believe they have Duchesses/instructors at Livermore, San Carlos, and Reid-Hillview.

There used to be a 337 parked at Livermore, one at Concord, and one at Reid-Hillview. You might want to see if they are still there and ask if they'd recommend a CFI specifically for the 337 if you decide to train only in the 337.

Anton Sabev at might be able to help you, too. I have used Anton for many years and he is a great instructor on almost any airframe, working out of the greater Bay Area airports and flight clubs/schools. Phone was 650-776-4435 (don't know if that's current.)
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Old 07-16-11, 01:36 PM
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rhurt rhurt is offline
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Centerline Thrust Rating

The FAA removed the centerline thrust rating for a few months, then brought it back. I took my MEI instrument checkride in a 337B in Jan 2010 and the flight examiner gave me the info.

There was a little challenge finding a designated flight examiner who would do the 337 checkride though, and that may be worth checking in your area.

The CLT checkride is pretty straightforward, and basically covers the same material as an aircraft checkout.

I would have to travel for the instruction, use vacation time, etc, so it would be expensive. Sean Nelson (lives in Nashville) may be more available but would have to travel also. He graduated from Embry Riddle a few years ago and has plenty of time in pressurized and normally aspirated skymasters. (615) 881-1248
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