How are sales transactions typically done these days?

YankeeClipper · #1 09-02-19, 08:02 AM

How, in this modern age, are transactions carried through once the price is agreed upon? My thought was to:

agree to these steps 1st
establish payment method (Venmo or bank wire depending on limits )
meet for transaction at the plane
do a final inspection akin to home sale (nothing changed, missing, etc since PPI, no glaring oversight by inspecting A&P... )
Am I expected to fly it myself?
fill and sign sales documents
wire money
shake, and carefully observe for larger of two grins
fly (hopefully)

I suppose I should add: round out top of wallet, aim toward local A&P, and rotate. But that's implied. Does the rest seem about right?

Multimotor · #2 09-02-19, 12:29 PM

In this scenario, has an aircraft history been requested from the FAA? That might reveal things that could surprise the owner, since it's not unusual for paperwork to disappear over the years. It's cheap enough that it should be the first step if a potential buyer is at all serious about purchasing the airplane.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...craft_records/

How about a title search? The aircraft history should contain all lien records, but often doesn't. AOPA can do that.

hharney · #3 09-02-19, 10:25 PM

Here's my opinion on this

If you can work with a broker that you trust he will represent your interests. Use a broker that has been down this road before, has experience and is referred by some on you trust.

Pre-Inspection should be partnered with a knowledgeable aviation expert. Could be your broker, an A&P or someone that knows airplane like your seeking. You need to stay as neutral as you can and be careful not to let your emotions drive the deal. That's where the accountability of another person comes in. They look from the outside in with no interest in the plane. If the initial inspection (not a pre-buy) passes then you dive into Log books. That's where the A&P knowledge takes control. It may be that you have the logs scanned and sent to your A&P that you trust. Once you have researched the logs then if that passes it's time to get serious.

Next would be to agree on a price based on the pre-buy inspection. The broker will know how to set this up. All money's go into an Escrow. A Title search is initiated during the pre-buy. Be ready to walk if any doors close. Don't let your emotions drive the deal. There's a lot of junk out there so it's hard to find the right one. The pre-buy should be done in your control not the sellers. Do not use the shop that the seller uses for maintenance. It may be that you have to bring a A&P in to do the pre-buy or take the airplane to another facility. Make sure the agreed procedure for the inspection and repairs is followed.

Then if the plane passes the pre-buy you sit down and agree on the inspection costs, work done and condition of the plane. When everything is a green light then the money is exchanged and contracts signed.

Don't forget insurance, the only history that the FAA will have is filed STC's (Form 337) which is good to know but should be in the logs too.

Probably have to be logged in for this info on AOPA
https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft...ng-an-aircraft

YankeeClipper · #4 09-04-19, 01:49 PM

Thanks all.

I did see that AOPA page before, but it doesn't seem to lay out steps so much as point to forms involved.

Once the seller has been paid, and it's time to go home:

It's my understanding currently, that to take the aircraft home, you need only to have a bill of sale filled out (not submitted to any other party/agency at this point), and the "back" of the registration filled out with the buyer's name and address, and the seller's signature (also not sent or copied to any other party at this time). Simply filling out and holding onto the above two documents makes your possession and transport home of said aircraft 100% legal. Is that correct?

hharney · #5 09-04-19, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeeClipper

It's my understanding currently, that to take the aircraft home, you need only to have a bill of sale filled out (not submitted to any other party/agency at this point), and the "back" of the registration filled out with the buyer's name and address, and the seller's signature (also not sent or copied to any other party at this time). Simply filling out and holding onto the above two documents makes your possession and transport home of said aircraft 100% legal. Is that correct?

Forms for Buying and Selling Aircraft

Aircraft Registration (AC Form 8050-1)

Aircraft Bill of Sale (AC Form 8050-2)

8050-3- Current registration in aircraft, back filled out, signed and sent into FAA.

Information if registering aircraft in an LLC

Sample Aircraft Purchase/Sales Agreement

An airworthiness certificate usually is transferred with an airplane when it is sold, but the certificate alone does not fulfill the regulatory requirement. A buyer must ensure that the airworthiness certificate is, as the regulation specifies, current.

YankeeClipper · #6 09-05-19, 04:20 PM

I have finally found an AOPA article on exactly this. It isn't dated (for shame) but appears rather current.

https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft...ng-an-aircraft

wslade2 · #7 09-07-19, 12:01 AM

I have used AOPA's title and escrow service. They pretty much take you though the steps. There are multiple articles from AOPA.

Title search first: you can find some interesting history about your airplane, accidents, major repairs, etc. You might read it and stop right there.

Talk to your insurer. Can you get insurance? Under what conditions? Training? You may be required to have so many hours of dual after you own it. Is there a type pilot/trainer around? Talk to them. You may need ferry pilot depending

Purchase contract and in that work out inspection details-have an out if you don't like it. An opportunity to get your deposit back if you don't go forward.

Inspection (logs, A&P, search the owners association and read everything you can about your possible purchase, be aware of AD's that apply). Become your own expert-be very involved. I inspected multiple times. I asked to look at it before even doing a contract, and came back again for "official look" after contract, and again before closing. Went in eyes wide open aware of some areas I would want to have serviced or could pop up as problem after purchase. And they did pop up. I met the owner more than once or even twice.

When ready to go (you're main question), use AOPA Escrow service (or there are others); there is a small fee. They will make sure proper documents filed and money doesn't change hands until all sides have done what they are supposed to. For example, on one of my purchases they wouldn't let money out of escrow or allow any part of the transaction to move until an unsettled side agreement between owner and broker that I didn't know was there was settled. Better than wiring money and standing with hands outstretched hoping bill of sale drops in them. Arrange with owner to get the keys.