SMA Turbo Diesel from Tule-River Aero

[RRossner]

What say ye to a 225 hp turbo diesel engine for the pressurized or un-pressurized airframe? Its still about 9-12 months out but we at Tule River Aero-Industries are currently looking very closely at this.

As the west coast distributor/installation facility for SMA, we are scheduled to commence the sales and installation of the newly certified 225 hp SMA turbo diesel (Jet-A) engine in the 182 Skylane beginning next month.

Initial numbers are sparse but I'm lead to believe 8-9 GPH and a 3,000 hour TBO. Full power up to 18K feet and 3 blade MT composite props with FADEC controls.

Rick Rossner
VP, Sales
Tule River Aero-Ind.

[Richard]

I'd write you a check today if the price is not something I have to sell my children to afford.

Rick:

What's the price going to be?

Keven
________
Lovely Wendie99

[Bob Cook]

$$ = to 4 TSIO-360's then some..

or .. NY state lottery prize,

or "Truck load" of $$ ......... just a rough guess!

bob

[RRossner]

Right now the 182 conversion is about $80k. That includes everything with paint, new cowling, controls, assesories, 3-blade prop.

I think there is going to be another price reduction next month and that will really need to be the case times 2 before this is really cost effective for Skymaster owners.

[kevin]

Hey Richard, how much can you get for your children?

Kevin

[Paul Sharp]

Seems strange to me that every time we see companies talking about new engines, the prices are in the stratosphere. They usually try to play that down by claiming it will have a longer TBO. That may or may not be true, but its a bit much expecting owners to gamble on that along with all the other things they have to gamble on with new technology.

It would seem to me that if you were trying to develop and sell new engine technology, you'd make it CHEAPER than current engines or forget it. Uphill marketing battle, for sure. And if you can't do it cheaper, why bother? The engines we have work pretty well even if the designs are old, and who wants to spend a big chunk of money over what he can now pay? If it doesn't get you half the gas costs or twice as fast or something else like that, why bother?

[RRossner]

Paul,
You seem surprised at how commerce and new technology really works! It’s always been this way from the beginning. New technologies -> High prices -> and what’s in it for me? Remember when personal computers first came out? No one could afford them much less know how to operate them.

We are on the brink of new technology and yes, there are still some questions to be answered, and yes some risks, but we really believe this to be the wave of the future especially if the oil companies decide to stop making the volatile 100LL fuel, not to mention EPA standards.

The price is rather high at the moment but we expect that to rapid improve as soon as the engine is certified and we start selling them. Overall interest is very high right now and the pre-orders are coming in for the 182 as well as the TB-20 conversions.

We are looking very carefully at a blanket STC for the 337 series aircraft but were not going to proceed until we see what the prices are going to do, as well as the hard core performance benefits and overall justification of the conversion for Skymasters.

You’re correct; for the most part no one is going to pay $150K for a turbo diesel conversion on an airplane that is only worth less then that amount. However that said, there are exceptions to the rule for commercially operated aircraft that fly a lot and for those applications the math really works well.

I think its worth sitting back and following the evolution over the next several months and I’ll keep everyone posted as to the progress.

Rick Rossner
Tule River Aero-Industries

[Mitch Taylor]

Another major factor driving prices up is product liability insurance. I hate to think what coverage costs these days, particularly with a brand new engine that hasn't got a track record.

Rick:

Have you seen the prices of the new UPSAT WAAS GPS? Beats the heck out of the 530 on both price and performance. And to make the 530 competitive, you have to buy an upgrade. Maybe a new business model.

Keven
________
MERCEDES-BENZ CONCEPTFASCINATION

[WebMaster]

Jumping back to 2003, I found this thread. SMA still isn't producing, and Tule River isn't doing any 337's.

It is relevant, because today, Thielert fired the founder, Frank, as well as their CFO. Their stock is down from 25.22, to .43 euros, and the future of the company is shaky.

AVWEB has an interesting article on this, and the future of Aero Diesels.

http://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/A..._197721-1.html

It makes DeltaHawk as the next best thing.

[RRossner]

Gentlemen,
Things are still moving very slow with SMA these days. The French are very methodical in their way of thinking and I have found over the last few years that their short term goals equal to American's long term goals.

Having said that the current hold back w/ regards to further development are as listed below.

1. SMA claims that this engine was not designed to be a pusher, and further engineering will need to be accomplished in order to change this. I'm guessing it’s a bearing issue of sorts.
2. Available aircraft/interest with the current fleet of existing 337's versus the cost of which would be involved for this type of mod, vs. the potential payback for millions spent for the development of the STC.

Not easy questions at this time but there is renewed interest by SMA and we are talking to them about this in the very near future.

[WebMaster]

That's good news, Ron.
I remember that when Skyrocket first proposed this, that there was the queston of the rear engine.

Unfortunately for Thielert, the news is not so good

http://web.thielert.com/typo3/index...._news=1211&L=1

They have filed for insolvency.

[Dave Underwood]

I am not surprised on the news from Thielert as my local maintenance organisation has had no end of problems with the 1.7 litre version of those engines, not to mention the airframes they are mounted in. They maintain about 18 or 20 engines I think at last count in both SE and ME aircraft.

Although a great idea, the execution on these engines has left much to be desired. The list of problems is very long and vary from electrical through cooling systems and include heads and gearboxes as well.

Let's hope our French friends do a better job and produce a better product as we may well need it or similar in the future.

Either that or stop flying which is still not an attractive proposition.

Blue skies = Dave

[Skymaster337B]

There can only be one answer! The government must provide all Skymaster owners new Diesel engines. Everyone else gets hand outs...the poor, the rich oil companies, the bankers who thinks it's ok to lend $600,000 for a 2 bedroom house to people with low credit scores, etc.

How about us airplane owners getting our share of the great government give away.