FAA Approves Electronic Ignition - Possible Avfuel Solution?

[CO_Skymaster]

I heard, that's really cool. Love Oshkosh. My only concern, when I explored the website was that a battery backup was needed incase ships power is lost. After watching the video, they said standard installation would replace a magneto and the EI would be primary, but one magneto would remain and take over incase all power is lost. That concept of keeping the engine operation during a full electrical outage is a very important factor for me.

Looking forward to more articles from Oshkosh.

Karl

[hharney]

Has anyone installed the Electroair mags on their Skymaster? Asking for a friend, he has a G model pressurized and would like to install the electronic ignition

[CO_Skymaster]

I plan to try during my next annual in January 2022 (if money permits). Ask me again after this date and I might have some info for you.

[mshac]

Surefly's model SIM6C electronic ignition is for our engines, and it costs $1895.

Their website: http://surefly.aero

The VP of Sales for SureFly is an acquaintance of mine. He lives near me. I met him buying a motorcycle he was selling. Nice guy. If anybody wants a connection to him, reach out and I'll introduce you.

[Piedmont85]

I'd love the contact, I sent a private message. Davis

[CO_Skymaster]

@bjornfb

Hi Bjorn,
I was asking questions in the past about installing Electroair ignition in my 337A. I finally received an estimate to have them installed, but the time to install seem extreme. Do you know how many hours of labor were involved in front engine and rear engine installation. The manufacture I believe had the number of about 10 hours of labor per engine, but I received something like 40 hours per engine for my estimate.

Thanks for any help,

Karl

[bjornfb]

Originally Posted by CO_Skymaster

Do you know how many hours of labor were involved in … installation?

Sorry, I don’t: they were installed as part of a larger “catch up on deferred maintenance of the previous owner” effort and so I don’t know how much the ElectroAirs took by themselves.

-Bjorn

[Learjetter]

Originally Posted by CO_Skymaster

@bjornfb

Hi Bjorn,
I was asking questions in the past about installing Electroair ignition in my 337A. I finally received an estimate to have them installed, but the time to install seem extreme. Do you know how many hours of labor were involved in front engine and rear engine installation. The manufacture I believe had the number of about 10 hours of labor per engine, but I received something like 40 hours per engine for my estimate.

Thanks for any help,

Karl

Karl, not an Electroair answer, but just FYI:
I put a Surefly SIM in place of Left mag on my engines. Took about six hours over two days for both engines, including unboxing, doing the 2 forms 337 and log entries, new harness routing, new wiring, SIM programming and timing. But I’m very slow, and I’ve got a rear access hatch for rear engine mag access and the interior was removed for annual. If I had to start with an unopened aircraft, I could see 10-12 clock hours for both engines. When Surefly gets dual-installation approval, I’ll replace my other mag with another Surefly.

-LJ

[n86121]

Add a lambda O2 sensor in the exhaust with display,
and a knock sensor,
with an ECU that automatically advances timing,
that can lean to the edge of knock detection,
....now you're talking.

As you fellow dinosaurs recall,
older cars and boats ALL had mechanical points with centripetal advance mechanisms.
Little weights and springs twirling around.
Crude but effective.
Not reliable, but functional for the time.

AC Delco (and others) came out with direct drop in replacement electronic distributor series,
that have their ECU IN the distributor cap.
They automatically figure out 4,6, or 8 cylinders, and advances RPM curves accordingly.
Not tied to a knock sensor, as did some of the original OEM ECU stuff.

Now imagine that in an airplane,,,,,

[mshac]

Originally Posted by n86121

Add a lambda O2 sensor in the exhaust with display,
and a knock sensor,
with an ECU that automatically advances timing,
that can lean to the edge of knock detection,
....now you're talking.

As you fellow dinosaurs recall,
older cars and boats ALL had mechanical points with centripetal advance mechanisms.
Little weights and springs twirling around.
Crude but effective.
Not reliable, but functional for the time.

AC Delco (and others) came out with direct drop in replacement electronic distributor series,
that have their ECU IN the distributor cap.
They automatically figure out 4,6, or 8 cylinders, and advances RPM curves accordingly.
Not tied to a knock sensor, as did some of the original OEM ECU stuff.

Now imagine that in an airplane,,,,,

I'd be shocked if exactly what you describe does not already exist in the Experimental aircraft world. They've got all kinds of goodies certified AC aren't allowed.

I've seen Experimentals run modern Corvette engines, so I assume the automotive ECU is in there doing its magic!

Here's an LS3 on a Velocity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRuF30l9FSU Its got TWO ECU's, each one running four cylinders!

[bjornfb]

> Has anyone installed the Electroair mags on their Skymaster?

Yes, I have the ElectroAir system on both engines of my P337. Love them. The engines run extremely smoothly and they are the easiest starting engines I’ve ever flown.

-Bjorn

[CO_Skymaster]

Bjorn,

Have you also experience better fuel economy and performance on takeoff and at cruise.

Those were the other things I was interested in. Glad to hear the easier starting works.

Karl

[bjornfb]

> Have you also experience better fuel economy and performance on takeoff and at cruise.

Karl, I can't say whether I've been getting better fuel economy as I didn't keep accurate enough records before. Same for performance: I actually changed my takeoff procedure shortly after I had the Electroairs installed to reduce stress on the engines: basically I'm using the airline style "just enough power" rather than the little airplane style "full power all the time". Since sometimes I take off at 90% power, sometimes 95%, and sometimes 100%, I don't have consistent enough data to say if the Electroairs helped there.

But I will repeat: I never, ever, have any trouble starting the engines now. Hot, cold, whatever, they just crank a couple turns and vroom they are running. Other pilots are jealous

Cheers,
- Bjorn

[CO_Skymaster]

Hi Bjorn,

I'm looking at my next upgrade for my aircraft as Electroair ignitions. Electroair has the additional switches that you can buy for some issue with backfiring. Did you purchase and install these switches or did you keep your original one. If you kept the original switches, have you had any issues with them them working with EI?

Thank you for any help,

Karl

[bjornfb]

Karl,
I did put those switch panels (http://www.electroair.net/switchPanel.html) in when I upgraded to the ElectroAirs. I did it mostly because I liked the look and I never liked the fact that the starter was part of the same key switch as the magnetos, but you are correct that it mitigates that mag check issue: the issue is that the ElectroAirs have a slight delay from powered-on to generating-sparks, so in the key switch case, you end up not having a spark at all for a brief half second (magneto off, EA on but not yet generating spark, then EA on generating spark). With the switches, I can turn the ElectroAir on, wait the half second, then turn the magneto off and voila, I never have that "there is no spark happening" half second. But mostly I like the look of the switches on my panel

Cheers,
- Bjorn